1964-M20E Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 OK so there has been some talk about installing a backup alternator with people going full electronic instruments negating the need for a vacuum pump. I began looking into this since I am considering going with the AV030s to replace my AI and DG and eliminating the vacuum pump. B&C offers some systems STCd but not for the Mooney. I have not contacted them about it yet. I wonder if you could get field approvals for increased safety and it is a non required system? Anyone else out there besides B&C for standby alternator? https://bandc.com/product-category/alternators/certified-alternators/standby-alternators/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 The 410 system is $2635, the 462-H would be only $780, if going through the field approval process, I would go with the 462.Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I spoke to them last year when I had the last of my vacuum system removed. It would require a field approval. There is also a fair amount of work needed on the buss to separate out hardware that will run off of the standby alternator. I have it on my list of adds for the next upgrade. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lloyd Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Why separate out hardware that will run off of the standby alternator. Not flying the space shuttle. Simply turn off what you don't need until the load is acceptable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Even if the backup alternator is not able to keep up with the full load it will extend the battery time greatly compared to drawing just on the battery alone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 6 hours ago, 1964-M20E said: OK so there has been some talk about installing a backup alternator with people going full electronic instruments negating the need for a vacuum pump. I began looking into this since I am considering going with the AV030s to replace my AI and DG and eliminating the vacuum pump. B&C offers some systems STCd but not for the Mooney. I have not contacted them about it yet. I wonder if you could get field approvals for increased safety and it is a non required system? Anyone else out there besides B&C for standby alternator? https://bandc.com/product-category/alternators/certified-alternators/standby-alternators/ Should be fairly easy to get approval for a Mooney. I did field approval papers last year for a European customers TB-20. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 I think this is one of the topics that is going to get reviewed more and more.... https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=Back-up alternator A Two Battery and two alternator system would be really good... Somebody would need to write an STC for two smaller batteries in the back of the M20F... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, carusoam said: I think this is one of the topics that is going to get reviewed more and more.... https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=Back-up alternator A Two Battery and two alternator system would be really good... Somebody would need to write an STC for two smaller batteries in the back of the M20F... Best regards, -a- Must be midnight, Count Caruso is with us again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) I had the B&C standby alternator in the Ovation. I too wondered what it would power if the ship's main 100A alternator gave out. About everything, as it turned out. I dug into the details a bit and came up with the RPM vs current output curve, and experimented to see if the B&C could hold up the load in normal flight. All that is back three years: Edited March 26, 2019 by Jerry 5TJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 18 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said: I had the B&C standby alternator in the Ovation. I too wondered what it would power if the ship's main 100A alternator gave out. About everything, as it turned out. I dug into the details a bit and came up with the RPM vs current output curve, and experimented to see if the B&C could hold up the load in normal flight. All that is back three years: So Jerry, it sounds like you & I need to talk about this power/RPM curve. I have been seriously thinking about the B&C for my naked vacuum pad spot. I started putting together a power consumption spreadsheet. What wasn't answered was things like pitot heat, gear and flaps. I think a 20 amp standby can power my avionics comfortably but what about these short duration power drains? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 Can’t the battery handle the short larger loads on the system?Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 16 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said: Can’t the battery handle the short larger loads on the system? Tom It should, it comes down to what this 20 amp standy-by alternator will handle and how much will depend on the extra power coming from the battery. I just don't know how much juice the landing gear pulls during extension. It is protected by a 20 amp breaker, so it will probably be in the 10 amp range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lloyd Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 A temporary load like keying the microphone or extending the gear will draw needed power from the battery while the maximum amps from the stand-by alternator is exceeded. Another good reason to keep a healthy battery in your plane. When considering a stand-by alternator, it is a safety device to assist you getting to a convenient airport for repair of the big alternator, not for flying around for a month awaiting repair. The Bo I fly occasionally has a B&C stand-by. Installation includes light that blinks when the stand-by load is exceeded. Pretty sure B&C has manuals on their website that describes use. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81X Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 I’ve reached out to B&C as my last items on vacuum are the speed brakes. Basically they sent me the paperwork for a Mooney that got field approval. They have an STC for the bonanza and with newer more relaxed STC processes, it would be nice to see blanket approvals coming through. The STCd option is the slipstream drop down alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 On 3/25/2019 at 5:01 PM, David Lloyd said: Why separate out hardware that will run off of the standby alternator. Not flying the space shuttle. Simply turn off what you don't need until the load is acceptable. Marauder has a George Foreman Grill and a crock pot plugged in for his girlfriends. More than likely those stay on during an emergency, so it's not so simple for him. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMooney Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 can you just not install a second identical output alternator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted March 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 21 minutes ago, McMooney said: can you just not install a second identical output alternator? The biggest thing with this would be space in the cowling. I don't know where I would put it. The voltage regulators on each alternator need to play nice with each other. The B&C voltage regulator does really well automatically switching on the standby alternator when the bus voltage goes low. So most of the time the standby alternator is just sitting there not drawing any more power than needed to overcome the internal resistance to spinning the rotor inside the alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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