Jump to content

My formal introduction here - with an M20E.


Recommended Posts

Hi all!

I say "formal intro" because I did have another thread, about weight and balance on this new-to-me 1966 M20E.  As I expected, after reading on this forum for months, there was lots of great feedback there and I've learned to appreciate this crowd.

I'm a 1700+ pilot and former Diamond DA-40 owner, living in Flagstaff Arizona (7000 feet up).  I'm 5'10" and 165 pounds, while my wife is about 110 pounds...  adding in our 11-year old daughter, we still have lots of capacity for fuel and baggage.  I bought N3353X and just flew her home from Lynchburg, VA.  I picked her up on Tuesday and got home Wednesday evening.  I'm quite pleased and know this will be a great aircraft for what we plan and needs.

I have a bit of time in a 20C with a Johnson bar and I came close to buying one that a member here had (a super nice plane!), but that IO-360 is a nice thing to have here where I've seen density altitudes near 9000'.  I did a check out in this plane and nothing is a big surprise, but there are a few small things that I found on the 1500+ mile trip home.

Squawks I found anew, that I'll be correcting (either through repair or upgrade):

- The old Garmin 150 looked fine on the ground, but I didn't dig deeply enough to find that the buttons are unresponsive once past the "data is outdated, click okay..." screen.

- The JPI EDM-700 display segments are going out.  I understand that it can be fixed for about $300 at JPI, but I may take the opportunity to upgrade to a 730?  I'm open to your input here!

- The Precise Flight speed brake "deployed" light quit working in flight... should be an easy fix.

- I have no night panel lights (didn't catch this during the day) and I cannot find a switch or dimmer!

If that's all, I'm pretty darn pleased.

I do have a few questions for the group, if I may:

1) The prior owner had a right gear collapse about 280 hours ago and I'm told a torque tube broke.  How robust is the gear on these?  I've not read any accounts of similar failures, so I'm not worried.  But is there anything in particular I should watch for?

2) What the heck is the small knob on the yoke, in the photo attached?  The lettering is mostly worn off, but it may say "pitch trim"?  I've read the Brittain PC manual and didn't find that.  But of course, I'm not really sure if that what it says.  BTW, it's a rotating knob that turns counterclockwise.  My guess is it's a vacuum release for the PC system... sort of a permanent press of the button on the yoke.  Is that right?

3) There's a small pull-out switch on the panel, to the right of the speed brake button.  The label says, "pull on" but pull on for what?  Haha!  The prior owner relayed that it was for the autopilot. The autopilot heading works fine, without this button pulled out.  It may be for the altitude hold function, because when I pull it out the plane noses down.  I wasn't able to get the altitude hold to work right, so I just left this off.

4) Is there a more visible upgrade to the gear up indicator in the floor?  This thing's darn hard to see.

I'm loving this plane!  Thanks, all.

Ross

 

 

 IMG_20190322_105930.thumb.jpg.0a16233baafc89d03561d67dc968aa1c.jpg

 

IMG_20190320_095450.jpg

IMG_20190322_105339.jpg

IMG_20190322_105926.jpg

IMG_20190322_110018.jpg

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all!
I say "formal intro" because I did have another thread, about weight and balance on this new-to-me 1966 M20E.  As I expected, after reading on this forum for months, there was lots of great feedback there and I've learned to appreciate this crowd.
I'm a 1700+ pilot and former Diamond DA-40 owner, living in Flagstaff Arizona (7000 feet up).  I'm 5'10" and 165 pounds, while my wife is about 110 pounds...  adding in our 11-year old daughter, we still have lots of capacity for fuel and baggage.  I bought N3353X and just flew her home from Lynchburg, VA.  I picked her up on Tuesday and got home Wednesday evening.  I'm quite pleased and know this will be a great aircraft for what we plan and needs.
I have a bit of time in a 20C with a Johnson bar and I came close to buying one that a member here had (a super nice plane!), but that IO-360 is a nice thing to have here where I've seen density altitudes near 9000'.  I did a check out in this plane and nothing is a big surprise, but there are a few small things that I found on the 1500+ mile trip home.
Squawks I found anew, that I'll be correcting (either through repair or upgrade):
- The old Garmin 150 looked fine on the ground, but I didn't dig deeply enough to find that the buttons are unresponsive once past the "data is outdated, click okay..." screen.
- The JPI EDM-700 display segments are going out.  I understand that it can be fixed for about $300 at JPI, but I may take the opportunity to upgrade to a 730?  I'm open to your input here!
- The Precise Flight speed brake "deployed" light quit working in flight... should be an easy fix.
- I have no night panel lights (didn't catch this during the day) and I cannot find a switch or dimmer!
If that's all, I'm pretty darn pleased.
I do have a few questions for the group, if I may:
1) The prior owner had a right gear collapse about 280 hours ago and I'm told a torque tube broke.  How robust is the gear on these?  I've not read any accounts of similar failures, so I'm not worried.  But is there anything in particular I should watch for?
2) What the heck is the small knob on the yoke, in the photo attached?  The lettering is mostly worn off, but it may say "pitch trim"?  I've read the Brittain PC manual and didn't find that.  But of course, I'm not really sure if that what it says.  BTW, it's a rotating knob that turns counterclockwise.  My guess is it's a vacuum release for the PC system... sort of a permanent press of the button on the yoke.  Is that right?
3) There's a small pull-out switch on the panel, to the right of the speed brake button.  The label says, "pull on" but pull on for what?  Haha!  The prior owner relayed that it was for the autopilot. The autopilot heading works fine, without this button pulled out.  It may be for the altitude hold function, because when I pull it out the plane noses down.  I wasn't able to get the altitude hold to work right, so I just left this off.
4) Is there a more visible upgrade to the gear up indicator in the floor?  This thing's darn hard to see.
I'm loving this plane!  Thanks, all.
Ross
 
 
 IMG_20190322_105930.thumb.jpg.0a16233baafc89d03561d67dc968aa1c.jpg
 
IMG_20190320_095450.thumb.jpg.afb0555959c34e8a6ac118a6e0869b45.jpg
IMG_20190322_105339.thumb.jpg.1640384d8f56611cf5b27cfa07162daa.jpg
IMG_20190322_105926.thumb.jpg.0c187ab97263981c3d86b3acd8d75d02.jpg
IMG_20190322_110018.thumb.jpg.89e87e12dd2bf245f6c32233850d5181.jpg



For 3, could it be your pitot heat?
For 4, if you remove the center plastic floor covering, you can get at the screws that hold that plastic cover over the gear indicator. I picked up a piece of acrylic at Lowe’s that I replaced it with.

62509bf3394b7457d6d124b425c16435.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, gang.

Thanks for the PC roll trim ID... I'll need to read more about that.  It sort of screws out, it seems, almost like a needle valve.  Maybe that's exactly what it is?  I do have the PC override button on the yoke and it seems to work fine.

As far as that pull-on button on the panel, question 3, it seems to be related to the autopilot.  The plane has the original Brittain system with the attitude hold.  There are two lines on the unit's pitch indicator, which I read I'm supposed to line up with the trim.  I'll read more about that.  When pulling that switch to on, the nose pitches down slightly.  There's an "altitude hold" push/pull button on the Brittain, which seems to do nothing... so, my guess is the prior owner added this to replace it.

Marauder - wow, that's very visible and nice.  And I do have a pitot heat switch (breaker switch) elsewhere, so I think that's not what this is.  But thanks!

This plane has a Scimitar prop and hub,  thanks to the gear failure,  and a Lycoming reman engine.  The prior owner added the speed brakes and the "typical" speed mods that seem ubiquitous.   There's no ADS-B out yet, but I'll put in a Garmin GTX335.  One thing on the "do soon!"  list is to swap the seats side-for-side... the foam on both is more compressed on the inboard side, so there's a bit of a lean which I wish were outboard instead.  :-)

All of you have my appreciation!  Thank you.

Ross

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try the search function....

1) Garmin buttons are known to be funky... there is some advice written about them... but not guaranteed to be working...

2) +1 for fixing the gear status window... lots of pics around here for that... and it’s lightbulb...

3) +1 for the PC on/off switch... most installations started with a button on the yoke. Always on, until the button push allows air into the system... a few upgraded to a panel switch... typically open/close...

4) stock Dimmer, on/off is on the ceiling next to the torpedo lights... along with a knob that opens the ceiling vent...

5) all the instrument lights are wired to a post behind the pilot’s panel... all the panel light electricity starts at the knob... then goes to that post...

M20Es make nice economical planes...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

And now.... More Formally... welcome aboard, again...  :)

Best regards,

-a-

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Ross Taylor said:

Thanks, gang.

Thanks for the PC roll trim ID... I'll need to read more about that.  It sort of screws out, it seems, almost like a needle valve.  Maybe that's exactly what it is?  I do have the PC override button on the yoke and it seems to work fine.

As far as that pull-on button on the panel, question 3, it seems to be related to the autopilot.  The plane has the original Brittain system with the attitude hold.  There are two lines on the unit's pitch indicator, which I read I'm supposed to line up with the trim.  I'll read more about that.  When pulling that switch to on, the nose pitches down slightly.  There's an "altitude hold" push/pull button on the Brittain, which seems to do nothing... so, my guess is the prior owner added this to replace it.

Marauder - wow, that's very visible and nice.  And I do have a pitot heat switch (breaker switch) elsewhere, so I think that's not what this is.  But thanks!

This plane has a Scimitar prop and hub,  thanks to the gear failure,  and a Lycoming reman engine.  The prior owner added the speed brakes and the "typical" speed mods that seem ubiquitous.   There's no ADS-B out yet, but I'll put in a Garmin GTX335.  One thing on the "do soon!"  list is to swap the seats side-for-side... the foam on both is more compressed on the inboard side, so there's a bit of a lean which I wish were outboard instead.  :-)

All of you have my appreciation!  Thank you.

Ross

Ross

Ref the trim, it should not come out.  Full left should give you a few degrees of left turn, full right the other way.  With equal fuel and pax, the trim should be set up relatively centered.  The autopilot will do better with the trim set to wings level.

Edit:  Just realized that may be Marauder’s picture.......A side note, there is another thread about seats slipping on TO.  Looking at the photo of the gear indicator, I can see you have some impacted dirt in the seat rails.  This can contribute to  a seat not locking.  Very easy to clean using a drill bit turned by hand.  

Nice plane!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Ross Taylor said:

One thing on the "do soon!"  list is to swap the seats side-for-side... the foam on both is more compressed on the inboard side, so there's a bit of a lean which I wish were outboard instead.  :-)

Your shoulder belt attach points will be wrong then, so be sure to swap them also. (you do have them, right?)  You might be as well served to rebuild the foam in the seats when you pull them out with some confor foam.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard, I'm sorry I didn't get to meet you in person.  You have my deepest respect and appreciation for the care you showed this aircraft... she's a beauty and was obviously well-loved.  My wife, daughter and I will continue loving her.  Best wishes and a big thank you to you, sir.

Ross, Kara and Ruby.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congratulations Ross & Beautiful copilot!

I had a 64 in the late 70's and still vividly remember bringing her home.

Please post performance numbers operating out of Flagstaff when you get a chance. I'm in Pagosa Springs, CO (7700 msl) and doing a feasibility study re getting another E.

She's a beauty...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be sure we explained the lighting - one rheostat controls all the panel/post lights and any internal instruments lights and the other one controls the 2 spot lights on the ceiling. 

The Mooney gear is very robust but it is a little strange to non-Mooney mechanics so if possible it should be checked at the annual for anything that might be a problem and the over center loads requires tooling to check. Oh, and the 3 wheels are interconnected - if something does break it will bring the whole circus to the ground.

Welcome to the '66E club. Mooney built a lot of our model that year... it is arguably the best representation of Al Mooney's vision optimizing strength, efficiency, speed, and economy. I don't know how much Al valued "fun to fly"  but I'd add that to his list.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the E a lot - I have an E with the johnson bar, and (I'm guessing) the same auto pilot and altitude hold.

To use the altitude hold, trim the plane to near level, then pull in the button out. It may cause to the nose to go up or down - retrim it level flight. In talking with Jerry at Brittain several years ago, he said that sometimes, the servos (the rubber, nuematic system) stretches out a bit and you have to retrim.  After your trim, pull the button on the left hand side of the auto pilot panel and you should fly fairly level.  

You can test the system by pulling the yoke back to climb a couple hundred feet.  When you let go, the plan should settle back down to the original altitude - this should work if you descend a few hundred feet too.  (And it is ok to overpower the altitude system).

Also the altitude hold and "steering" auto pilot are plumbed separately.  In other words, you don't need to turn on the auto pilot and follow a track to hold an altitude.  

If you fly through a significant barometric change, the system will hold the previous baro's pressure altitude, so you many need to adjust.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is some great, and really helpful, feedback and information here (above) - thank you all for sharing your expertise!

So, here's my stupid for the week...  I didn't realize that the two ceiling-located dimmers didn't control the red spots.  So, during the day, I had dutifully dialed up the left dimmer and checked the left spot - yay, it works.  I dialed it to off then checked the right side spot with that side's dimmer.  Darn, that spot seems to not be working... maybe a bulb?  Of course, you know what I was doing. I was unknowingly turning up, and then off, the panel lights... but during the day, I didn't see that.  Anyway, the panel lights work just fine and both spots also work just fine, now that I've been "unconfused" - thanks for that! 

I had a message asking about the rounded windows.  They aren't just painted to look like that.  They are normally shaped on the inside, but at some time in the past there was some nice sheet metal work done on the exterior and rounded corners were added.  

As to the shoulder belts, yes there are reels mounted to the frame/pillar. And we use them.

And, 211º, thanks for that helpful info - I'll give that a try.  

Finally - here she is in her new home, at Williams KCMR.  Our business is in Flagstaff and the airport here in Flag is very nice, but there's a super long waitlist for hangars or even shades.  Since we live about 25 minutes west of Flagstaff, the Williams airport is actually a bit closer to our home and it's a nice little operation with available T-hangars. 

Edit to add:  I forgot to address a request for my performance experience here in Flagstaff.  Yesterday, I took off from KFLG with full tanks and 360 pounds in passenger weight, plus about 25 pounds of stuff.  My wife and I were in the front, with Ruby in the back.  FLG has an 8800' runway at 7015 feet elevation.  I forgot to check our altitude at the end of the runway, but I'll say I was impressed.   It easily matched the high-altitude performance of the Diamond DA-40 I had previously, maybe beating it?  I know I was faster!

IMG_20190324_215910.jpg

IMG_20190324_215919.jpg

IMG_20190324_215924.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.