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Son wants to become a professional pilot


Paul_Havelka

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On the note of pilot pay, it is my understanding that pilots and crew only get paid when the tin can is pulled away from the gate. They don’t get paid for all of  preparation time besides per diem. I think it was Les Abend that wrote and article on that too - he was getting paid pennies on the dollar if you counted all of the unpaid but required work and time spent (besides commuting to and from work to home). Government pilot work would be king here as they get paid from when their shift starts until it ends regardless if they climb into a cockpit. I know US Customs & Border Protection Pilots easily can easily break $120k very soon in their career and get a take home car. Plus they fly the nicest birds around as money for equipment is unlimited. Their hiring as early as 750 hours for certain qualified individuals. 

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1 hour ago, tigers2007 said:

On the note of pilot pay, it is my understanding that pilots and crew only get paid when the tin can is pulled away from the gate. They don’t get paid for all of  preparation time besides per diem. I think it was Les Abend that wrote and article on that too - he was getting paid pennies on the dollar if you counted all of the unpaid but required work and time spent (besides commuting to and from work to home). Government pilot work would be king here as they get paid from when their shift starts until it ends regardless if they climb into a cockpit. I know US Customs & Border Protection Pilots easily can easily break $120k very soon in their career and get a take home car. Plus they fly the nicest birds around as money for equipment is unlimited. Their hiring as early as 750 hours for certain qualified individuals. 

True.  We got paid from door closed to door open because most captains were smart enough to release the parking brake at least momentarily as soon as the door closed so the computer would show us "out".  Similarly, most captains would also reset the parking brake just before they opened the door so it wouldn't show us "in" until just before the door opened.

Even so, it wasn't really pennies on the dollar.  However, we were effectively limited by FAR's to working just over 80 hours/month but usually spent close to 160 hours on duty to get those 80 hours.  So even though I might have been making $150/hour as a senior 757/767 FO, a normal person working a 40 hour week would only need to make about $75/hour to make as much as me.

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I have one more bit of advice for anyone thinking about working for an airline.

1.  Know the contract.

2.  Follow the contract.

3.  Use the contract to your advantage.

If you don't follow #1 you can't do #2 or #3.

Examples:

1.  As a junior DC9 captain one year, I used the rules to get Christmas off even though everybody junior to me and lots of people senior to me had to work on Christmas.

2.  As a senior 757/767 FO, since I could bid any 7-10 day period of the year off, I didn't care about when I had vacation.  So instead of using vacation to get specific dates off, I used it to maximize my pay.  So instead of getting 12 months of essentially 80 hours pay, I would bid vacation to get 10 months of 80 hours pay and 2 months of about 115 hours pay each.  An extra 70 hours ($10,500) of pay each year.

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Major airline and cargo carrier pay is quite respectable. But don't take my word for it, our pay is no secret. Go take a look at a pay scale on airline pilot central. The numbers are hourly. Multiply by 900-1000 for a good annual estimate (that does not mean you are flying 900-1000 a year). Add to that 15% (typical) directly into the 401k tax free (before you put in a dime). That is pretty significant given that pensions for new hires are a thing of the past, and the IRS limits about what your employer can contribute to a 401k are much higher than you or I could put in as employees. Add other things like profit sharing which will vary more wildly with the economy, price of oil, etc. Paid long term disability that covers you if you lose your class 1 medical.... it is a good job.

But the carriers that pay, you will need a degree to get into. The good jobs are very competitive, shortage or not.

On the subject of pay when the aircraft is "out", a lot of that depends. There are all sorts of contractual rigs that govern the trip, and that further separates the quality of lifestyle each carrier offers. Some trips are straight block time, some you're paid to not fly due to daily minimums. I am paid to fly 4 full days now when I'm working 3 due to a long layover. I kind of wish this layover were somewhere warmer (a big east coast city) but I'll make the best of it, and ideally get paid to use this time away to get the taxes done and filed. So in a typical year I might fly 700 hours and get paid for 1000.... for the rigs, vacation time, training time, sick, etc. There are probably folks who can do better.

But through this I am only speaking about part 121 airlines, as we know there are a lot of options in aviation.

 

Edited by Immelman
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3 hours ago, kpaul said:

WTF????

You don't need to be a doctor or lawyer to own GA plane.  How little do you think the majors pay?  It is more than enough to buy a Mooney especially after the first two years.  There are plenty of airline/military pilots on this board.

I am well aware of the pay scales, I can assure you- I live them.  And I’m in the process of figuring out what I’m going to do after I finish my first career as a military pilot (after 20 years).

How much do the loans cost to “get to the majors” should one choose the civilian route?  What does one get paid as an O-1->O-3 in the military?

how long does it take to accrue enough time to get to the majors?  What’s the first year FO pay? How about second year?  

Yes, *IF* you get hired by a major.... *if* you make it to the left seat... you can make about 250 a year.  (That’s ~10 years into your career in the majors).  Some pay better than others.

how about family needs?  and retirement savings?  And time availability?

I’ve been very fortunate and lucky that a few of my investments have worked out... but on my current pay alone there is no way I could afford a GA airplane as a military officer alone... not because of the acquisition cost... but because of the random 5K-10K annuals.   Because gps databases cost $500.  Because avgas is 4.50 a gallon.... it adds up.  quickly.

some of the guys on this board seem to shrug off these costs like they are nothing.  But it is a sizable cost commitment.

even as a left seat captain at a major (nominally you’d be about 45-50 depending on your path), let’s break it down-

Let’s say you pay 15K a year in expenses- which is on the low side in my experience... and your airline pays you about 300K.  After tax you’re at 230.   Your yearly costs are about ~7% of you total income.

what about if you’re in the right seat after 5 years?  You’re making 180.  After tax that’s more like 140.  Now that 15K is ~10% of your yearly income.

again- most professional pilots and military officers can not afford that... because they don’t even make that much.  I think you might be looking at this from only an airline major captain perspective- you’re not factoring in the commuters, the years of hours building, or the 10-20 years in the military that get you to the doorstep of a major... or the first 5-10 years in the majors.

again, I repeat my comments, and state that the OP is probably better asking this question on a board that is dedicated to Airline Pilots trying/making a career out of it- like airline pilot central.  We are lucky to have the means to afford a GA airplane, but we are not the norm in the industry (and most of us on this board are not in the industry).

Edited by M016576
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I guess it all depends on where you are on the pay scale. There is certainly a world of difference between an FO flying Dash8's for a regional and a Captain at one of the majors. 

As an outside observer, but with several family members flying for the majors, it's pretty clear that seniority trumps everything. College degrees or a military commission is nice to have, but once hired at a major, your employee number is the only determinant on compensation. The quicker he gets the hours and the ratings, the quicker he gets hired, the quicker he makes Captain, and the more years he has at max earning.

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1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I guess it all depends on where you are on the pay scale. There is certainly a world of difference between an FO flying Dash8's for a regional and a Captain at one of the majors. 

As an outside observer, but with several family members flying for the majors, it's pretty clear that seniority trumps everything. College degrees or a military commission is nice to have, but once hired at a major, your employee number is the only determinant on compensation. The quicker he gets the hours and the ratings, the quicker he gets hired, the quicker he makes Captain, and the more years he has at max earning.

That seems to be the key to maximizing one’s earning (and time) in the Majors.

Edited by M016576
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2 hours ago, M016576 said:

I am well aware of the pay scales, I can assure you- I live them.  And I’m in the process of figuring out what I’m going to do after I finish my first career as a military pilot (after 20 years).

How much do the loans cost to “get to the majors” should one choose the civilian route?  What does one get paid as an O-1->O-3 in the military?

how long does it take to accrue enough time to get to the majors?  What’s the first year FO pay? How about second year?  

Yes, *IF* you get hired by a major.... *if* you make it to the left seat... you can make about 250 a year.  (That’s ~10 years into your career in the majors).  Some pay better than others.

how about family needs?  and retirement savings?  And time availability?

I’ve been very fortunate and lucky that a few of my investments have worked out... but on my current pay alone there is no way I could afford a GA airplane as a military officer alone... not because of the acquisition cost... but because of the random 5K-10K annuals.   Because gps databases cost $500.  Because avgas is 4.50 a gallon.... it adds up.  quickly.

some of the guys on this board seem to shrug off these costs like they are nothing.  But it is a sizable cost commitment.

even as a left seat captain at a major (nominally you’d be about 45-50 depending on your path), let’s break it down-

Let’s say you pay 15K a year in expenses- which is on the low side in my experience... and your airline pays you about 300K.  After tax you’re at 230.   Your yearly costs are about ~7% of you total income.

what about if you’re in the right seat after 5 years?  You’re making 180.  After tax that’s more like 140.  Now that 15K is ~10% of your yearly income.

again- most professional pilots and military officers can not afford that... because they don’t even make that much.  I think you might be looking at this from only an airline major captain perspective- you’re not factoring in the commuters, the years of hours building, or the 10-20 years in the military that get you to the doorstep of a major... or the first 5-10 years in the majors.

again, I repeat my comments, and state that the OP is probably better asking this question on a board that is dedicated to Airline Pilots trying/making a career out of it- like airline pilot central.  We are lucky to have the means to afford a GA airplane, but we are not the norm in the industry (and most of us on this board are not in the industry).

 

You will make a fair amount more then $250,000 a year in the left seat of a narrow body at most majors these days (at least the company I am with anyway). I am a widebody FO and I make that much in the right seat (sometimes even more depending if I pick up trips that pay time and a half or over guarantee, sell back vacation etc..) Plus they give you another 16% matching also.  I can hold narrow body captain but I see no reason to bid it at this income level and lifestyle. The domestic system is too much of a circus act for me.

It has been my observation that a college degree is not mandatory and I would even recommend to skip college get all the ratings ASAP and get on at a regional with a flowthru agreement.  You can go from 0 to a regional job in less then 2 years, then flow thru to a major in around 5 to 8 years... no college needed and the regionals do NOT care if you have a degree or not. Plus with a flowthu you WONT have to apply or interview at said major. It is a sweet deal.

The airline I work for has a "cadet"  program set up to do just that. They will defer finance payments until you are working also.

If your goal is a major airline you are better off to stay civilian. Sure the military is awesome, and part of me wishes I had gone that route for the life experiences. But the fact of the matter is the sooner you get hired and get a seniority number the better. Even paying for your own training you win out financially vs military once you do the math of career earnings.

 

 

Edited by 75_M20F
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1 hour ago, M016576 said:

I’ve been very fortunate and lucky that a few of my investments have worked out... but on my current pay alone there is no way I could afford a GA airplane as a military officer alone... not because of the acquisition cost... but because of the random 5K-10K annuals.   Because gps databases cost $500.  Because avgas is 4.50 a gallon.... it adds up.  quickly.

...

again- most professional pilots and military officers can not afford that... because they don’t even make that much.  I think you might be looking at this from only an airline major captain perspective- you’re not factoring in the commuters, the years of hours building, or the 10-20 years in the military that get you to the doorstep of a major... or the first 5-10 years in the majors.

I don't know how on earth I afforded to buy my airplane on an engineer's salary (what I did prior to airline during the 'lost decade')... at the time, making a bit south of 6 figures.

In 12 years of owning my E, rarely has an annual gone north of $2000. I did buy one expensive one @ purchase, but that was it.

GPS database cost, $0..... because I just do not see the utility I would get out of an IFR GPS being worth the money for the kind of flying I do.

And in 12 years, my airplane is still airworthy... its not a show plane, and that's okay with me. And because the costs were in check --- and nothing expensive went wrong -- I was able to keep my airplane for the ~5 years of income hit it took from leaving the cubicle job to an airline job that paid more.

I'm not trying to boast here, but only to say that a lot of what an airplane costs is what you make it cost.. A lot of elbow grease put into the years above.

 

Edited by Immelman
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2 minutes ago, Immelman said:

 

In 12 years of owning my E, rarely has an annual gone north of $2000. I did buy one expensive one @ purchase, but that was it.

 

 

I need to find your A&P IA- I had a great one where I was previously... costs were typically about 2200 an annual...

The MSC’s all start at about $3000 flat rate.  Most major shops are about the same... it seems like the only way to find a lower rate than that is to find an independent A&P or to do an owner assist (which, honestly, is probably a better “product”).  Throw in a few items like tires, a battery, a “broken widget” or two  and it quickly gets over 5k.  I digress... this is a different thread!

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1 hour ago, M016576 said:

I need to find your A&P IA- I had a great one where I was previously... costs were typically about 2200 an annual...

The MSC’s all start at about $3000 flat rate.  Most major shops are about the same... it seems like the only way to find a lower rate than that is to find an independent A&P or to do an owner assist (which, honestly, is probably a better “product”).  Throw in a few items like tires, a battery, a “broken widget” or two  and it quickly gets over 5k.  I digress... this is a different thread!

There are a few Mooneys I know in Arizona who travel to Texas for their annuals. Both DMax and SWTA are sub $2000 for an annual. Might be worth thinking about.

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If he's only 17 I think the odds are slim that he will retire from the majors, as they exist today. With the coming of the unmanned sector I see lots changing in the industry. I'm 43, right seat of the Airbus 330 for a major and am not pushing my 12-year old towards it. We fly alot, don't get me wrong.  But I encourage him to get an otherwise useful degree and then fly afterwards if the opportunity presents itself. Or at least have a plan for what to do when he turns 50 and is replaced by a computer.

My 2 cents...

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See if I get this right...

1) CreekRat has a teen aged boy...

2) Two things for sure... he will eat a lot as he grows.... and he won’t stay a teenager for very long...

3) If he was interested in aviation, there would be a CreekRat2 signing up on MS to read the next post as it arrives... :)

4) As far as I know... there is a sale going on at MS... a bogo... buy one get one free...sort of...

5) It doesn’t cost anything to sign up for MS... it’s an honor system of sorts... it doesn’t take much to meet the requested donation.

6) For the student, there are few dollars to go around... the option of seeing a bunch of ads... while scouring IR threads.... isn’t bad at all...

7) Highschool graduation is a cross road... a fork... when you come to a fork in the road... take it..! - Yogi Berra (a Yankee Great)

8) Life, when executed properly, lasts a long time...

9) The more education you get... the better off you will be...

10) The more experience you get... the better off you will be...

11) The sooner you get your education and experience, the more efficient you will be... getting to your next level...

12) When you have a stack of cash to go to school... use it.

13) When you don’t have a stack of cash to go to school... There are options that may include ROTC, military, and school loans...

14) Commitment starts to rise when somebody else is paying your bills.

15) A whole thread on military life can be found around here somewhere... Don’t forget Army ROTC and helicopters...

16) The first decade of any career... lots of work, little pay, plenty of hours waiting... not just aviation...

17) Being a professional... lots of studying, reading, getting self educated... continuously... find the guys that have A&P/AI next to there names... why would a pilot want that?

18) Ask Alexa... ‘what does a chemical engineer with zero years of experience make?’  Select a dozen other careers... to get a feeling for selecting a career based on dollars...

19) Finding a career you want to spend a lifetime at... is more of a challenge...

20) Having a Plan B counts for careers too... especially if your medical status drives your ability to work... you can go from running, stringing 7 minute miles together, prepping for a job interview... then executing Plan B.... all in one crummy day. :)

21) Most importantly... find a mentor... at every level of your career... somebody you can ask... if I want to get to X, what do I want to do now, and for the next Y years.... a good mentor can introduce you to people in the right areas... so you can ask them questions... they can tell you the right questions to ask...

22) Keeping a clean personal record... super important since the invention of computerized record keeping...

23) In work, the more responsibility you take on, the more dough you bring home... There is plenty of responsibility with hundreds of people following closely behind you.   :)

24) next steps... put a plan together... sign up to every website listed above...

25) start reading FARs... Select the ones that apply to VFR flight... then the ones that apply to IFR flight...

26) Do you like knowing how things work..? Find Aidan’s pics of the inside of an IO360, or Yeti’s video of the landing gear in operation, Or Marauder’s inflight videos of an Aspen display while executing an instrument procedure...

27) Do you like knowing how to fly an M20C with precision... for really good energy control, Bryan made good YouTube videos of an M20C operating off short and unimproved strips using a long X-country plane... find the videos of many MSers flying the caravan to KOSH... all levels of pilots flying in formation, closer than expected...

28) Read threads on engine operations... hot starts, LOP for turbo engines at high altitudes... for a reality check, read what happens when a turbo fails at altitude and the engine croaks... know why it fails, and what can be done about it told by a really smart professor, with first hand experience... how about knowing an important solution to a simple exhaust failure, told first hand by a guy with THE solution...

29) Read the success story of a young guy flying his Dad’s Mooney around the world... the youngest guy to ever fly around the globe solo...

from the ROTC posters of the 80s... :)

Aim High!

Best regards,

-a-

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4 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

There are a few Mooneys I know in Arizona who travel to Texas for their annuals. Both DMax and SWTA are sub $2000 for an annual. Might be worth thinking about.

Definitely worth thinking about!  Thanks- I think I might start doing that!

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I had a customer that was attending a university part 141 aviation course, he owned a PA-38-112 that he used to commute to parents home in Southern LA on the weekends.  The institution sent him a letter advising the the flight time he accumulated in his PA-38 would not be counted towards his 141 requirements - obviously it counted towards his TT and provided an education is aircraft ownership and operations that they could never provide.  I suggest verifying with potential institutions what there position would be regarding flight time accumulated in your aircraft.

After graduation there will be the need to accumulate hours and reach the magic 1500, the most common route is flight instruction, may I suggest he look at aerial imagery as well / instead, I'm part owner of an imagery company and our pilots generally acquire 700 - 1000 hours/year flying Cessna 172s or Piper Aztecs around the lower 48, every year we hire 10-15 pilots with wet ink on their commercial certificates.

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On 3/21/2019 at 8:40 AM, Creekrat said:

I am definitely trying to push him towards the degree path.  I know there are several accredited programs that give credit for FAA certificates.  He's a smart kid, scored a 33 on his ACT, so getting into a decent program shouldn't be an issue.  I'm going to try and get him to stay home and go to the local community college to at least get the basics while also working on his certifications.

I’d consider myself still relatively young and somewhat fresh out of college (less than 8 years)

full time college and do charter flights on weekend if at all possible. School like Auburn where he can CFi at all times and get reduced tuition / maybe free MBA for being a school employee. 

Airlines want the ATPL and that is 23 years old. 

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I keep reading about debt, debt, debt.  When I financed my first 172, I paid a little over 28k for it.  25k financed, $200 a month or so, less than $100 for tiedown.  Near run out, functional radios, full IFR stack.  Do you THINK I lost money on that deal? Hint:  NO.  Many of those available today. 

 

What did it cost me to fly? Insurance and gas. You mean to tell me that someone making a young man’s wages can’t afford 35 dollars an hour for gas and an annual 172 premium? If so, you guys leave a lot more humble a life than I Expected. 

Go look on ASO or Trade a Plane, and tell me if there aren’t cherokees or 172’s to be had for similar prices under 30.  Let’s not be snobby now:  I’m talking about a time builder .  

 

College is the biggest imaginable racket out there- UCLA, a public law school, is $43k per year tuition alone.  A Cal State is $8k and  not a bad deal; community college is free to well over 87% of attendees and the best deal out there: Private and aviation universities? Pricey and not always a good value.  

If the idea is “doing it on the cheap”, a multi rating is $3k.  You can buy an Apache for incredibly cheap, sell it to get your money back, and burn gas to the tune of $70 an hour.  Once you get your CFI, CFII and commercial, get other people to pay for your time. 

The army will gladly take you without a college degree.  The airlines will gladly pick up rotary guys.  When I got my rotary rating, the school couldn’t keep instructors around because the market is entirely taxed...

 

so yes, ROTC, OCS/OTS and direct commissioning are fine routes, but airlines and others are nearly desperate and thus are not looking for the same pedigreed individuals they were before.  To pigeonhole aspiring talent into the usual and costly routes when ownership and sale present a good alternative is...less than ideal. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Another thought: yes, some of us fly airplanes with a replacement value of $800k- very few of us. Many of us fly ovations, bravos or acclaims - congrats! Still not many with $200-300k birds out there. A good bunch of us discovered Ks and Js hovering at $100k and below, and many of us are ecstatic to be flying a pre-J model for substantially under $100k, sometimes as low as 20/25k...from personal experience.

For so long as we continue to treat ownership as some super duper unaffordable special privilege, interest in our brand (and others) will remain low, and demand will affect availability of planes and parts. If people can afford to finance and it’s their choice, they should! I wasn’t always fortunate enough to own 3 airplanes outright. When I was younger, I financed. I’m all for teaching our young men and women responsibility and good credit prior to buying a house by financing the passion of an airplane as an asset and investment in their career- a far better return than those I know who financed over $100k (sometimes as much as $200-400k) in education with little to show for it and not much of a professional future.

Owning is investing in yourself, if flying is a career, rather than some special treat that only the “wealthy” should enjoy. If flying is your passion, go buy an Ercoupe for $15k, a Traumahawk or AA1, and fly, fly, fly. I may not be able to buy a G6 not do I need one, or a super duper quadruple turbo laser acclaim, but with responsible budgeting, I can afford an airplane for virtually any budget, size and mission.


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Creekrat,

One thing your son needs to know up front is that the ONLY reason to go for a career in aviation is because he loves to fly. If he wants certainty of a high income, he should be looking at a more predictable career path, but if he really loves flying, tell him to buckle up and hang on because he is in for a wild ride. Things have never been better in the airline industry, but it is hugely cyclical and there will be both good and bad times to come. 

I have been incredibly fortunate to have experienced most of the aviation spectrum in my almost-completed career, from instructing and bush flying to small regional, to military and corporate aviation, and finally a major airline, so I have experienced the pros and cons of most of these career paths. I have loved every minute of it but there have been a few times when I wasn't sure if I would still have a job in the morning.  The military is not for everyone, but if he wants the kind of flying that civilian pilots can only dream about, training that is second to none, and the enormous sense of pride that comes with serving his country, it is worth all of the hard work and commitment

As a pilot, he will always be employable, but one failed medical can bring that to an end so it is good to have a backup plan. That’s the biggest argument for getting post-secondary education. For what it is worth, I was one of those impatient 17 year olds who didn’t want to wait until after university to start flying. It worked out for me, but only because I was able to continue my education part time while flying. 

Income is less predictable. I can afford a pretty nice Mooney now, but only because a) I am a Wide Body Captain at the top of the food chain, and b) I have the world’s greatest wife, who lets me spend my kids inheritance on airplanes. But for 35 of the past 40 years my average income was pretty middle class. I think most of the professional pilots on this forum would have a similar story. Many worked their ways up the seniority ladder for decades only to have their company and/or their pension disappear just when they were getting close to the big paycheque.

If your son is serious about following his dream, he may never be rich, but he will have a career that most people envy and when they tell him that, he can look them in the eye and say “It sure beats working for a living!”

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There is good debt... and there is bad debt...

Briefly....

1) Good debt... something you get, so you can achieve something you need...  debt costs extra, so make sure you need it... similar to buying a car to get to work... don’t get any more car than you need...

2) Bad debt... something that is easy enough to get, so you can achieve something you want... but doesn’t pay for itself once you get it... buying a Corvette to get to your first CFI job....

3) really bad debt gets spent on something you don’t get the use out of... like that class on Elizabethan poetry I had to take... I’m a more rounded person because of it... anyone want to discuss blades of grass? Keep in mind I can also discuss ROI on a machine purchase equally well as a Rutgers MBA grad... you never know what useable things you are going to get out of additional education... my best highschool finance class still gets used for determining the health and direction of my retirement fund... buying a Ferrari and finding out later it has a bad cam... can’t even get to work with it...

4) GLB gives a great example... a well bought plane gets used for many hours achieving many goals...

5) well bought... and well sold... very low cost differential while gaining valuable experience...

6) somebody gave another example of an M20C bought for 34amu and sold a decade later, fully run-out at 18amu... 10 years of flying experience for 16amu... 1.6 amu per year... insurance cost more than that.... a hangar rent costs 3X that...

7) where the wheels fell of my well bought experience... my plane wasn’t as IFR capable as I thought it was... that cost some more... wish MS had started much sooner... :)

8) Financial control... some people are born with it... Some people learn it early on... Some people struggle with it...

9) If you bought your car used, you ran it for a couple hundred Kmiles, you did all of your own maintenance, your favorite mechanic lives down the street for the really tough projects.... you learned enough financial control to buy an M20C with cash...

10) Your 20year old son is still driving the last new car you ever bought... you taught enough financial control to the next generation... what they do with it may not be noticeable for a while...

Way to go MS..! Thanks for openly sharing your experience. :)

 

Where is CreekRat2 today?  It’s  been several hours since dad logged in last...

 

Best regards,

-a-

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On 3/23/2019 at 7:55 AM, tigers2007 said:

On the note of pilot pay, it is my understanding that pilots and crew only get paid when the tin can is pulled away from the gate. They don’t get paid for all of  preparation time besides per diem. I think it was Les Abend that wrote and article on that too - he was getting paid pennies on the dollar if you counted all of the unpaid but required work and time spent (besides commuting to and from work to home). Government pilot work would be king here as they get paid from when their shift starts until it ends regardless if they climb into a cockpit. I know US Customs & Border Protection Pilots easily can easily break $120k very soon in their career and get a take home car. Plus they fly the nicest birds around as money for equipment is unlimited. Their hiring as early as 750 hours for certain qualified individuals. 

Not true. A given "trip" is going pay a certain minimum amount (normally min of 5 hours and 15 min per day or block time if more). The only concern of when the door closes is in an effort to make extra money on the trip above the minim trip pay.

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Thanks for all the sound advice.  Our instructor has a cherokee 140 for his trainer and the rental is $110 (wet) an hour so not too bad.  We have actually found a couple mid time cherokee 140s with asking prices right at 20k.  For the heck of it I got an insurance quote on a cherokee for the both of us, having less than 10 hours each, and it came in just under $800 a year.  Between the both of us i think we may try and go that route just for him to have a time builder.  Our local field even has a couple T hanger spots coming available for $120 a month.  Factoring all that in he would be able to fly more hours on the same money barring any big OH $H!T items that may rear their ugly heads and for that price point I would'n have a problem running it a few hundred hours and selling it, of course to get a mooney :D, and not really getting hurt on it. 

 

On another note, on one of my work trips, every 3 weeks I alternate XNA-MSY commercial, I met a left seat AA pilot and happened to ask him a question about the particular patterns at one of the fields and he ended up asking for my number and we've talked since.  He called my son and talked to him the other day and gave him some pointers and answered questions.  He even offered to give him a hand up once my boy got his commercial ticket, evidently he has a few friends that own or have hire/fire powers at some part 135 carriers and said he had help when he was younger and has been looking to return the favor.

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I agree that if flying turns out to be his passion, he will likely go on to have a very satisfying career doing something he loves. It won’t be easy or inexpensive, but I think it’s a great time to get started in an aviation career.  

More and more airlines will likely be investing in training programs to create a pipeline of pilots. I’m old school so I think a college degree in something practical is still worthwhile and will remain an advantage,if not a requirement, with at least the majors.

 As a CFI, I would make sure he chooses his instruction carefully to train like a pro as early as possible since the law of primacy is strong. Don’t rush to get through the checkrides and ratings with as few hours as possible. Focus on being the best pilot possible in the long run. 

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