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Son wants to become a professional pilot


Paul_Havelka

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So my 17 year old high school senior has decided he wants to become a professional pilot.  We live in northeastern oklahoma and yesterday he visited Riverside Flight Center for a little tour.  One thing that my wife and I mandated of him was that he get his PPL via a part 61 first to ensure that he wasn't throwing money at something that he wasn't going to potentially enjoy.  He's started his PPL and to help him build his credit and accelerate his training his mom and I just co-signed a signature loan to cover the cost of his private.  I also started my instruction for my private and am hoping to get a m20 sometime next year.  I would love for him to stay close to home and go to the local community college and then use whatever plane I ended up with to work on his IR and commercial but you know how teens can be, They know it all and are impatient.  For those of you that fly for a living, what insight and suggestions would y'all give to an impatient kid?

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I recently transitioned a young man who has decided to become a commercial pilot vs go to college. His dad, a Boeing fellow, purchased him an Ovation vs college tuition. He already had his PPL and instrument ticket. Since the Ovation purchase he obtained his CPL, and is now fast tracking to 1500 hrs for his ATP. 

He will be an excellent Commercial pilot.

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While waiting to hear from the pro-pilots...

 

Now is a great time to be looking to be a pro-pilot...

Like anything worth going after... the road runway is long.

There will be competition...

If you enjoy what you are doing... they don’t call it work...

There is a lot to know...

So...  Get started... :)

Best regards,

-a-

 

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Consider an Associates Degree at a minimum in Aviation Management.  I've seen enthusiastic kids make it all the way to the interview then get pushed aside for not having any higher education to their name.  If it were my Son, I would encourage both schools....Flight and College.

 

Rick

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Seems like they want to see a Bachelors degree. I was told this when I was chasing the dream in the late 90's. From time to time I still browse the job ads and I still see a bachelors degree as a minimum requirement or "highly desired". He can get one online from an accredited institution on the cheap. Just make sure its not a bulls**t accreditation bureau like some of the diploma mills use. 

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I would recommend that his college is not aviation but something else as a fallback option. associates degrees in aviation are expensive an not anymore helpful than any other degree.I know the big aviation colleges  would disagree with this but it buts big money in their pockets and regular college and private instruction while not as structured can yield as good or better training since a lot of it depends on student teacher dynamic .I say this as I sit in my hotel room waiting to go to do my flight.I have recommended this course of action to those who have enough self motivation to t are this course of action. If you would like to talk to me in person I would be happy to 

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I am definitely trying to push him towards the degree path.  I know there are several accredited programs that give credit for FAA certificates.  He's a smart kid, scored a 33 on his ACT, so getting into a decent program shouldn't be an issue.  I'm going to try and get him to stay home and go to the local community college to at least get the basics while also working on his certifications.

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Also agree on the completion of a four year degree as this will also allow him to option the military as an officer candidate for his flight training. And he could still obtain his PPL IR and CPL while attending college. Best news is he is only 17 and has a clear idea of what he wants to do in life. Good luck to the both of you on your future in aviation.

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Get him up local to make sure he likes it.  If he is committed to it get him into a part 141 flight school.  If he can get his cfi he could be instructing while going to college.  

I don’t know what your local airport has for instruction and a 141 school will have a program in place and oversight.  

Military is the best training you can get but it comes with a big time commitment.  I think it’s 10 years after you get your wings.  Look at Guard if you can but that requires a 4 year degree.

If you can keep him home for a while to bang out college classes at community college it is cheaper but it’s also familiar.  That could be good and bad.

 

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21 minutes ago, bonal said:

Also agree on the completion of a four year degree as this will also allow him to option the military as an officer candidate for his flight training. And he could still obtain his PPL IR and CPL while attending college. Best news is he is only 17 and has a clear idea of what he wants to do in life. Good luck to the both of you on your future in aviation.

Well, dear old dad could have gotten him an appointment to one of the academies but that was not the route he wanted to go.  On top of that, his vision isn't good enough to fly in the military. 

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Best of luck to him.

1.  He'll want a 4 year degree from anyplace in anything if he wants to fly with the majors.

2.  He should get his degree and hours as fast as he can, so he can get hired as soon as he can, because seniority is EVERYTHING in the airline business.  Because of the timing of when I got hired, I retired from Delta after flying for 25 years and I was still at least several years too junior to be a captain in Seattle.  I retired as a senior FO instead.  Probably the quickest way to get hours after he has his degree is to fly with a commuter airline, preferably the one or two that have a path built in to the major airline of his choice.  And pick a major that has a good chance of survival.  If you pick a new and upcoming airline, advancement might be fast, but when they fold 10 years later you start at the bottom of whoever hires you next.

  • Seniority determines what you fly.
  • What seat you sit in.
  • Where you are based.
  • The types of trips you fly
  • What days you get to spend at home.
  • How many days you get off.
  • The amount of money you make.

Flying for an airline means a LOT of days on the road in hotels.  Early wake ups, long days, late nights, all nighters.  The airlines tend to build trips that keep you on duty as long as allowed while paying you as little as possible.  You'll make good money, but not as efficiently as possible.

If he isn't willing to get up at 0430 to head for work.  Or to spend 13 hours on duty at work while flying up to 7 flights.  Or to be gone from home for 1 to 13 days.  Or to fly a redeye.  For at least a year until he builds seniority.  Then working for an airline is not for him.  Once he has seniority then he can start to control all that.  Once you have a little seniority it comes down to his choice; dollars or quality of life.  Fly the highest paying seat he can hold and fly ugly schedules, or be senior in a lower paying seat and get nice schedules.

Still, I can't think of a better way to make a living.

Edited by Bob - S50
changed can to can't in the last sentence
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30 minutes ago, Creekrat said:

Well, dear old dad could have gotten him an appointment to one of the academies but that was not the route he wanted to go.  On top of that, his vision isn't good enough to fly in the military. 

This may not be true.  Military accepts lasik/prk to meet minimum vision requirements.  I was a military pilot and so is my brother.  He had prk in college.

Strongly reccomend 4 year degree.  Opens lots of options. Certainly not required, but good.  Get through CPL.  Then either military through OTS or CFI.  Military is a great job, decent pay, excellent training.  You can leave and still go airlines at 32 years old.

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College is obviously a good thing, but I think it's becoming less of an important requirement. I know quite a few young guys here in Austin who are all working now as pro-pilots and none of them have any college. As we start to have more and more of a pilot shortage, college will become less important. I also thing the digital and high tech economy, tech start-ups, etc. are often done by kids without any college, have taken some of the shine off the college degree.

But seniority is certainly king in the airline industry. So get in early, get your employee number, to maximize the number of years as Captain where the money really is.

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Agree with all the above and also Paul's immediately above.  The degree requirement will be relaxed as the shortage manifests itself further.   Having said that, at age 17 he's seriously lacking  life experience and some time spent knocking out general core requirements at a community college will only serve to set him up better.  This flying thing is fine but as a parent, I would want him equipped as best I can for challenges other than finding work.  There seems to be a backlash in this country right now toward traditional college but at his age, now is the time to let him learn how to think critically while he finishes growing up.   He can continue his flight training while also getting some community college credits that will transfer to a 4-year university in the future, should he find that necessary.

Re:  the guy who bought his kid an Ovation as opposed to sending him to college?  I think that's a disservice to the young person in the grand scheme.  

Edited by Aviationinfo
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If he gets any sort of eye surgery, make sure it is accepted by the military EVEN if he's not interested in the military at the moment. I burned myself by getting LASIK and not LASAR-PRK and threw out my chances with the ANG or RCAF (who are desperate for pilots). There's no way to undo LASIK once they slice open the flap. I would have waited if I knew better. 

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For what it's worth, I recommend getting a four-year college degree if he wants to work for the major airlines.    If he wants to take classes that will transfer from an accredited college to the 4-year university, just make sure those credits will transfer.   I recommend a 4-year degree from a well recognized aviation university.  Yes it will be more expensive, but it's more respected and will open doors faster, plus when the major airlines interview him, they have a point scale system.   If the degree is from an aviation university, that candidate will get more points in the hiring process vs non-aviation school.   The other thing is that if he goes to an aviation university like Embry-Riddle, he'll be surrounded by aviation day & night.  The campus is right by the airport, so it's a GOOD motivator.    Also it's recommended that he get a degree in other than Aviation Science, in the event he loses his medical, he'll have the background for another career field.   Perhaps business administration or any of the dozens of degree programs.   Recommend applying for the many scholarships that are offered.

Most of the major airlines have a new pathway to work for them if desired for someone with no aviation experience.   You have to enroll at specific aviation universities, and follow their pathway, getting the four-year degree and working at the university flight instructing for a certain amount of time, then guaranteed a pilot position, as long as you maintain a certain GPA and other requirements.    It's worth looking into.  

Here is more info about this program for Delta Air Lines:  https://news.delta.com/delta-propels-next-generation-pilots-through-innovative-career-paths

The major airlines will need to replace 1000's of pilots over the next 15 years, mechanics as well, so it's an excellent opportunity IF he loves flying.  If he doesn't love flying, then go into something else.  

Network with as many aviation people as possible to compare notes etc..  A lot of times with aviation jobs, it's not what you know, but WHO you know, as long as you have the basic credentials of course.  

The other thing is have him not get in trouble with the law....ex)speeding tickets, public drunkeness, car crashes, bankruptcy, paying bills on time.  The airlines will ask him about speeding tickets, they will look at his credit reports, and are very thorough with background checks including interviewing neighbors/relatives.   Make sure he keeps his record clean!  

Good luck with your own training, that's very exciting you're taking lessons as well for your Private.

 

 

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1. Get at least a 4 year degree. Nothing less than a 4-year degree if he wants to go to to a major airline or Fedex/ups. GPA and finishing in 4 years does matter if he wants to go to a major airline (Delta specifically is big on academics and that on-time part). What worked really well for me was a degree outside aviation, it gave me a good career during "the lost decade", but there is some preference given to those with aviation degrees so take that with a grain of salt.

1a. Military is also an option! But with a commission... and 4 year degree.

2. Have him seek out and go after volunteering and leadership opportunities

3. Keep on the straight and narrow. Alcohol/drug offices, dui, more than your 'average' share of speeding tickets are viewed very poorly.

4. Network always.

5. Don't give up.

6. All flight training, specifically preparation for checkrides, needs to be taken very seriously. No one likes a checkride but over-prepare and it will be easy. There are no surprises in aviation checkrides, everything is open book and they call it a "practical" test for a reason... with that said, multiple checkride failures will be viewed poorly. And there are a lot of them in building the ratings.

It really is one of the best jobs in the world.

Edited by Immelman
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I'll go counter to all this and say the degree is optional.  The regionals don't require one these days and I expect to see a lot of people upgrading through the majors that don't have them.

It's definitely helpful if it can be afforded, but there is a lot of opportunity out there even without a degree.

If he goes for the degree, make sure it's one that'll be worth the investment.

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There are not one, but two pilots on the field where I hangar in NorthEast Texas that got their bachelors in aviation at SouthEastern Oklahoma State in Durant, Oklahoma.  They. are both relatively young and doing quite well.  One is flying a King Air for a corporation.  He is compensated well for that and picks up some extra on the side with flight lessons.  He is the best instructor I have ever flown with and is in high demand.  I am sure he could make it to the majors if he wanted, but is doing very well and enjoying life in our quiet community.

The other one said that he retired the day he graduated college because he is living the dream.  He works for the flight museum where there are more airworthy warbirds than you can imagine.  He is typed in everything from B25, Corsair, Mustang, Albatross. On and on, all the way to an Aero Commander and a Citation and flies all of them regularly.  I am sure he could easily make it to the majors if he weren’t having so much fun where he is.

For many years the flight schools have advertised a shortage of airline pilots when there really wasn’t one.  Now there is indeed a shortage.  A person with fifteen hundred hours and a clean record, good health, good morality and work ethic along with a consistently clean drug test has a path to the airlines if that’s what he wants.  

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Military shmilitary. United States Marine Corps here.

Degree shdegree. Whatever. Got a few of those.

-as for a degree, getting one is not what it used to be. 30 years ago I went to Caltech for Physics. Today, I obtained a Bachelor of Arts, 120 (145, actually) semester units in one year and one summer, while working full time, at. State university. I reason a you g man can’t cut the college time in at least half. Feel free to ping me offline and I’ll tell you how. A real degree, brick and mortar, school of choice irrelevant. Many people looking for kerosene burners are t asking for a degree these days.

2. The time to repay a military commitment through ROTC or else is typically 2-1. This is not a good time bargain. Doing so self funded is a faster, cheaper option when you account time/value of money.

3. Purchasing an aircraft smartly and cheaply, burning the hours needed and selling it is cheaper than Part 61 or part 141, hands down, twins included. The young man will learn all about maintenance, responsibility, record keeping and finance. Ab initio pilots don’t fare as good a bargain.

You can buy a 172 or Cherokee with a minimal 6 pack, burn a hundred hours, and gas notwithstanding make money on the deal. You can get Mooney’s for complex time for 25/35k, burn some engine hours, and sell it. Spend some time in barnstormers, trade a plane, aso, and yes....eBay, not to mention your local airport. We get old, we die, and there are quite a few bargains to be found.

The young man can partner with someone and find a cheap Apache, duchess, or travel air, and again sell it for a profit while gaining his hours.

CFI hours once he has his ticket are gravy.

The military was once a great option; it’s nice they pay your fuel, bird and maintenance, but a self funded pilot may get more hours and sorties faster, have less obligation, and be in the left seat sooner than a military pilot many times- there’s a lot of hurry up and wait, you have to go through “the Basic School”, OTS/OCS, and a myriad of other things and that’s if he makes it; he may not.

The Air Force is short over 2000 pilots; people are taking pilots with 750. The CFI’s In a local helicopter school are bailing at 800 to get turbine time, and many are getting sucked up by airlines.

These are strange times we are living in. Before long you may see pensions return.


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It’s my understanding that commercial pilots with an A&P are gold for the corporate outfits. Just think of the savings he would get years later after he buys his J model and does his own maintenance (and yours too!).

Missionary School of Aviation Technology (MSAT) offers a 12-month zero-to-hero A&P program that is highly rated. Cheap too and has no requirement to be a missionary after graduation (for A&P).





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I think the OP is better served asking this question on the airline pilot central forums- from guys that mostly are working in the industry.  

Or on Baseops.net forums if his son is interested in military flying.  Or both.

while mooneyspace is a fantastic resource for GA, and some of the members are indeed “in the industry”, most professional pilots can not afford a GA plane... so getting advice on the “best” way to become a pro pilot here may be a bit misleading.  That “best” way is kind of subjective, too and based on background, resources available and overall goal....

I remember speaking to an elder fellow back when I was in flight school (I was flying a T-45 at the time- a high performance jet).  This guy kept going on and on about his Cirrus, and how cool it was.  I was so bored!  All I wanted from flying at the time was afterburners, missile’s and guns.  

Now that I’m (quite) a bit older- I certainly enjoy a different facet of aviation... GA.  But, I think I’d still be bored if that guy tried to talk to me about his cirrus again... now... if he’d said “my mooney”... that’s a whole different story! ;)

Edited by M016576
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10 hours ago, M016576 said:

most professional pilots can not afford a GA plane...

WTF????

You don't need to be a doctor or lawyer to own GA plane.  How little do you think the majors pay?  It is more than enough to buy a Mooney especially after the first two years.  There are plenty of airline/military pilots on this board.

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