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1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yeah I think he left out a couple of pieces.

G3x/430w.330es/50r/GFC500/G5

Without the autopilot, you're not getting the full package, and to go IFR you'll have to have the G5 as well.

There is no requirement for the G5 (unless the gad29 for communication w/ the gns/gtn is unable to directly connect to the g3x). Instead a AI, ASI, and altimeter could be retained for backup. If the BK 256 was retained as the AI all the AP functions would be usable as they are with an Aspen. 

*Looking at the diagram below the gad29b is almost a requirement for any type of navigator or autopilot interface. However, it does look like it interfaces directly with the g3x. It should really be included with the base system...

ABF85FAA-E598-43DD-92DF-42D9B67A18CC.jpeg

Edited by MIm20c
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17 minutes ago, toto said:

But doesn't the G3X effectively eliminate coupled LPV approaches (even though the 430w can draw them)?

I'm still trying to figure out the legacy AP approach. Would you keep a separate analog CDI?

The approach information is displayed correctly on the g3x as It would be on an g5 hsi. The AP receives the LPV approach info directly from the navigator in many installations.  The GAD43 (e) is only necessary to replace the 256 attitude output and import legacy info from other manufacturers. 

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1 minute ago, MIm20c said:

There is no requirement for the G5 (unless the gad29 is required for communication w/ the gns/gtn and is unable to directly connect to the g3x). Instead a AI, ASI, and altimeter could be retained for backup. If the BK 256 was retained as the AI all the AP functions would be usable as they are with an Aspen. 

*I got two different responses in regards to the gad29b requirement when talking with Garmin. 

If you retain your 256 AI to drive the autopilot, your ASI, and Altimeter, then as far as I'm concerned the G3X is just there to look cool. It doesn't actually do anything.

I can install an Aspen PFD/MFD pair and it will drive my current autopilot and fly fully coupled approaches without any other legacy six pack instruments in the panel.

I was ready to cancel my Aspen MFD purchase until after sitting through the Garmin call on Tuesday. I just can't see installing the 3Gx and having to retain all the other stuff as well. 

For those who need an autopilot, and a gps, I think it's a great option. But that's not me.

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24 minutes ago, toto said:

But doesn't the G3X effectively eliminate coupled LPV approaches (even though the 430w can draw them)?

I'm still trying to figure out the legacy AP approach. Would you keep a separate analog CDI?

Why would it? The Legacy AP still can connect directly to the 430W for vertical deviation and glideslope, it's not any different from the G5. You still have to keep the attitude indicator from your legacy AP if it needs one(just like the G5) but from the AP point of view it's just a fancy HSI. (There may be some question to legality if your AP has a Flight Director and you want to move the Attitude Indicator out of the primary position.)

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1 minute ago, gsxrpilot said:

If you retain your 256 AI to drive the autopilot, your ASI, and Altimeter, then as far as I'm concerned the G3X is just there to look cool. It doesn't actually do anything.

I don’t feel it’s any different than the backup gauges on a g1000 panel. You could put them along the bottom and never look at them again. Yes, the vac system would need to be retained until a suitable replacement comes along (ki300/av30). 

The g3x is still integrating and running everything. 

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1 minute ago, Steve W said:

(There may be some question to legality if your AP has a Flight Director and you want to move the Attitude Indicator out of the primary position.)

This is a great point I forgot about. However, that requirement might be left out of the stc requirements, I’ll have to look. 

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1 minute ago, MIm20c said:

I don’t feel it’s any different than the backup gauges on a g1000 panel. You could put them along the bottom and never look at them again. Yes, the vac system would need to be retained until a suitable replacement comes along (ki300/av30). 

The g3x is still integrating and running everything. 

It's not actually, because the KI256 is still running the autopilot. And the autopilot is flying the plane. With a G1000, it's driving the autopilot and flying the plane. The backup instruments are there in case the G1000 goes dark. 

The G3X/G5/GFC500 is a great system. But without the GFC500, it's just handicapped.

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I feel the BK AP’s reference the 256 for attitude info similar to the 3100 using solid state sensors or the Cessna/Mooney g1000 stec installs that used a turn coordinator behind the panel. IMO it’s the hsi and navigator that are actually directing the AP to fly enroute/approaches/etc. Even the FD is nothing more than an indicator to show what the AP is trying to hold. 

I totally agree with you Paul that it’s a workaround. I’ve just noticed everyone, including myself, is treating the g3x as a closed system. I feel like as long as you have one 430w or above the system will be amazing. 

Edited by MIm20c
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The g3x should be considered a fancy large format G5 (or pair)- it seems to have virtually the same limitations in terms of autopilot integration.  For legacy autopilots a GaD29b will work and provide lateral GPSS coupling only.  

The eis features and data presentation features will be a draw.  However, because the 43e is not integrated, the big box is just like a G5. 

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8 hours ago, MIm20c said:

If anything I feel like the 430w is as important as ever. A single “inexpensive” 10 inch g3x will provide access to a large vibrant mfd display, two way communication between 430 and EFB, bargain priced access to XM/adsb weather and traffic. The 430w staples the system down with LPV approaches, top quality nav/com, and a durable design that has stood the test of time. 

G3x/430w/330es/50r - IMO a powerful combo for another 20 years. 

I agree, if you have a GNS430W and it is working, then it remains a very useful and excellent GPS and would be beautiful with a G3X added.

What I meant is for those who want to purchase a GNS430 on the used market and now, that still seems to fetch >$6k even today, but there is the the GPS175 which is a better, newer GPS with more features and better interface and seemingly smoother install given it is designed to fit in a certain 2'' slot, and costs $4995 new.  Ok, it does not have com radio, and that is a big deal, but presuming you already have that, then surely the presence of this new equipment will push down the 430 prices on the used market.

I am now tempted by the GPS175 as well to compliment my GTN650.

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10 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yeah I think he left out a couple of pieces.

G3x/430w.330es/50r/GFC500/G5

Without the autopilot, you're not getting the full package, and to go IFR you'll have to have the G5 as well.

That is a fantastic package - 

What do folks think it would cost to install a G3x+G500 incl install?  I am thinking 35-40k.

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24 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

That is a fantastic package - 

What do folks think it would cost to install a G3x+G500 incl install?  I am thinking 35-40k.

Looking at @donkaye's recent thread on the quote he got for just the installation of a GFC 500, I would budget more like $40-45K or higher, depending on the G3X configuration you wanted.

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Looking at [mention=7354]donkaye[/mention]'s recent thread on the quote he got for just the installation of a GFC 500, I would budget more like $40-45K or higher, depending on the G3X configuration you wanted.

$80K or more, hardware costs being ONLY about $20K? Yikes, that’s not going happen.

 

 

Tom

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45 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:


Why? If going for redundancy, I would had a 2nd G5 tied only to the 175. I may be wrong, but I don’t think the 175 can backup the 650.

I assume you’ll need to install 2nd GPS antenna as well.


Tom

I need a new NAV radio before too long.  This 175 seems more useful than a simple nav radio and it is a full NAV GPS as well that backs up the 650 for nav functions (I am not talking in context of the G3x or the GFC500....just the 175 and my classic panel...meaning if/when I replace that nav radio, I may well just do that before diving all in to a full panel remake).  

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2 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

$80K or more, hardware costs being ONLY about $20K? Yikes, that’s not going happen.

Tom

Don't get me wrong, the ~$30K was for the GFC 500, and just the G3X 7" screen itself is $7,995 and the 10.6" with the 7" is $14, 865. Both of those prices (G3X) are H/W only. I could see it getting pricey really quickly!

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3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:


Why? If going for redundancy, I would had a 2nd G5 tied only to the 175. I may be wrong, but I don’t think the 175 can backup the 650.

I assume you’ll need to install 2nd GPS antenna as well.


Tom

Garmin seems to be pushing the idea that the VFR GPS in the G3X, while not legal to shoot an IFR approach with, is better than no second GPS or a portable if you lose your (e.g.) GTN 650 in the clouds.  I think, as a second backup, the GNC 255 makes more sense.  Gives you a second radio, VOR, and ILS if you lose the GTN and you have the integrated VFR GPS as an advisory tool.  I think that's likely to end up being my radio stack since I already have the GTN 650.

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6 minutes ago, johncuyle said:

Garmin seems to be pushing the idea that the VFR GPS in the G3X, while not legal to shoot an IFR approach with, is better than no second GPS or a portable if you lose your (e.g.) GTN 650 in the clouds.  I think, as a second backup, the GNC 255 makes more sense.  Gives you a second radio, VOR, and ILS if you lose the GTN and you have the integrated VFR GPS as an advisory tool.  I think that's likely to end up being my radio stack since I already have the GTN 650.

I agree completely:

 

0114373B-CBEB-4F98-8822-AD53181CB455.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Oldguy said:

Don't get me wrong, the ~$30K was for the GFC 500, and just the G3X 7" screen itself is $7,995 and the 10.6" with the 7" is $14, 865. Both of those prices (G3X) are H/W only. I could see it getting pricey really quickly!

that is the Garmin way. 

You can buy the basics but if you want it to do anything you will need a lot of options.

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3 hours ago, Oldguy said:

Don't get me wrong, the ~$30K was for the GFC 500

The gfc500 is consoderably less than 30k. Ive checked beechtalk, and people had a 4 servo setup with 2 g5's installed for 23k. Ive gotten qouted 40 hours for a 3 servo setup and 50 for a 4 servo setup. Just because one person made a post of getting expensive qoutes on here doesnt mean those qoutes are accurate to what normal shops would charge.

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6 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

The gfc500 is consoderably less than 30k. Ive checked beechtalk, and people had a 4 servo setup with 2 g5's installed for 23k. Ive gotten qouted 40 hours for a 3 servo setup and 50 for a 4 servo setup. Just because one person made a post of getting expensive qoutes on here doesnt mean those qoutes are accurate to what normal shops would charge.

What is the 4th servo doing? 1 and 2 are aileron's and 3rd is trim- is that right?  What is the 4th for?

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3 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

What is the 4th servo doing? 1 and 2 are aileron's and 3rd is trim- is that right?  What is the 4th for?

1 is aileron

2 pitch

3 pitch trim

4 yaw damper

 

Price reference: https://secure.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=161609&view=unread#unread

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