Bart Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 Good afternoon, I am new and this is my first post. I am very happy that people as me with small experience can learn from experienced pilot. I would like to buy my first plane and my choice is M20C. I've been a pilot for 6 years and have 100h in my logbook and it will be my first experience with complex plane. I live in FL and I found a plane that I'm very interested in. What do you think about it? Is worth it to buy for this price? https://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=1452535 I Mooney category a plane for 42,500 - https://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php I really appreciate your advises and your help. Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydvrboy Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 Welcome aboard. This question has been answered at least once a week since I've been a member here. Use the search function or just browse through and find a thread where someone else is asking if a particular plane is worth buying. In short, there is no way to answer that question with the information you have provided. Low times should throw up a red flag as it's often code for "not been flown in years." Have the seller send you a copy of the logbooks and get to work reviewing them. If you are still interested, get a pre purchase inspection done. If it's been flown 500 hours in the last 5 years, you could be looking at a good deal. If it's been flown 50 hrs in the last 5 years, run. If I were to guess, it looks like a plane that has sat for a long time and has not been well loved. Someone probably got a hold of it, cleaned it up good, put in a cheap ADS-B transponder and is looking to double their investment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lloyd Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 It has been and is now advertised for $62,500 on other sites. Suspect $42,500 is an error, call and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 hi Bart, where are you from? you pick the right place to try ask question, plenty of knowledge here. when you do find one you want to buy, make sure the prebuy is done by some one with extensive Mooney knowledge. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 was listed for 32K in 2014 right here on Mooneyspace. looks like the buyer took it to FL. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 no real avionics upgrade except ADSB, overhauled the top on an 1800 hour motor. does have a new prop, probably to get rid of the AD..... I would look at this carefully but it looks like it may be worth looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, David Lloyd said: It has been and is now advertised for $62,500 on other sites. Suspect $42,500 is an error, call and see. Wow, I'm not sure it's worth the $42... at $62... no way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 when the plane was listed in 2014, it had 400 hrs since it was topped at 1620tt, now it has 120 hours on 4 new cyl, 1850 tt. 500 hours on a top isn't much, engine would concern me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted March 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 32 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: Wow, I'm not sure it's worth the $42... at $62... no way. Could you recommend me where I can find something cheaper? I browse barnstormers, trade-a-plane, conttroler and nothing. Thank you for all your advices. I'm going to see a plane on Thursday and I'm taking my friend who is A&P with me. Of course per-buy inspection must be. I will let you know about results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bart said: Could you recommend me where I can find something cheaper? I browse barnstormers, trade-a-plane, conttroler and nothing. Thank you for all your advices. I'm going to see a plane on Thursday and I'm taking my friend who is A&P with me. Of course per-buy inspection must be. I will let you know about results. What's your budget and what type of flying are you looking to do? I would be hesitant to spend less than $45k on a Mooney, even an M20C. There have been some purchased for less, and some of them even turned out to be good airplanes. The cheapest Mooney will be one that is currently flying every week, has been well maintained, and has even been upgraded appropriately over the years. That M20C will probably fetch $50K or more, but has the best chance of continuing to fly with very little additional expense. Most M20C's I know of that were purchased for low 40's or even in the 30's, end up costing 50% to 80% that much again in the first year just to keep flying and get all the neglected maintenance caught up. If I were looking for a cheap Mooney, and lived in Florida, I would go meet @Raptor05121, buy him a beer, and let him tell about his experience. It will be the best Mooney education you could get and might save you thousands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 It sounds like to me the overhaul/gov/propeller might have been partially funded by the insurance company. I have no problem with that as long as hoses, engine mounts, etc were replaced as well. If the overhaul was done a year or two ago I feel it is a strong asset. Has the plane been rotting outside or in a hangar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schinderhannes Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, Bart said: Could you recommend me where I can find something cheaper? I browse barnstormers, trade-a-plane, conttroler and nothing. Thank you for all your advices. I'm going to see a plane on Thursday and I'm taking my friend who is A&P with me. Of course per-buy inspection must be. I will let you know about results. "something cheaper" often ends up being significantly more expensive in the end when it comes to airplanes 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) I'll repeat what I've said for years NEVER BUY THE FIRST AIRPLANE YOU LOOK AT NEVER TRUST WHAT ANYONE SAYS ABOUT A PLANE THEY HAVE FOR SALE ONCE YOU PAY YOUR MONEY ITS ALL ON YOU FROM THEN ON Edited March 21, 2019 by cliffy spelling 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted March 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Finally I got the logbook. I know that it is a lot, but if you can just only look for few years back and give me your comments. It will be more than a treasure to me. I don't want to buy a "pandora box". Thank you so much! N9146V A-C Logs 1984 - Today.pdf N9146V Engine Log.pdf N9146V Don George Overhaul 3-16-2017.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Three pages into the log book it mentions engine mount cracks... My recommendation is to read the logs yourself.... Condense each entry into a one line item... date, action, unique detail... once you have filled a page of one liners you get a great feeling for what is going on... after that, decide if this project is worth filling in another piece of paper... keep going until you run out of logs... or paper... use a highlighter on your notes whenever something unusual comes up... There is going to be a trail of ordinary annuals, one each year... a few oil changes and filters.... engine mount cracks... gets a highlight... how did it get fixed... who did it... note of what got replaced will give you a feel for ownership costs... tires, donuts, mag OHs, ADs complied with... Enjoy the exercise... something any plane owner can do... most, want to do it because it is there money at risk... This exercise gives you the go ahead to the next step. If it fails here... it doesn’t go on to PPI... If you skip this exercise, and send it for PPI to have it fail there... you find one PPI is expensive... multiple PPIs is really expensive. You can finish the log review as quickly as you can write. Make sure you have all the logs before starting... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 prop strike was the reason for the engine teardown, they did not zero time the engine but you effectively have an overhualed engine with the IRAN. brings the value up a bit, but still needs a thorough prebuy. would need to take a closer look at the logs to see if anything else looks like an issue or if there is any other damage from the prop strike. Brian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 one other note, the last few inspections were completed by someone who did not know Mooneys, it is evident in their sign off, they also did nor list any AD's being complied with. meaning the landing gear has not been properly checked in years, among other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted March 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) Wow, I see that buying a plane is not easy at all. I'm going to do my homework. Thanks for everything! Edited March 20, 2019 by Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Buying a plane is easy... getting a good one can be challenging... Buying one with fewer years on it and fewer owners can be really helpful... After you have been through this exercise for a 50 year old plane... You really appreciate doing it again for a plane built in the 90s... You will see a couple times each year... somebody will show up starting a thread... hey guys I just bought this plane, and I have some questions.... Any plane can be brought up to speed... functionality, and parts, everything can be repaired or swapped out... the better the plane is to begin with, the lower cost it will be... No log review, and no PPI... that is a crap shoot... you may get lucky, or you may have something to be parted out at a lower price over a longer period of time... Not trying to instill any fear... this is more like house buying than car buying... especially when the price is in the 100s of AMUs... PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy, yet... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Overall impressions: Not just an IRAN but a top quality overhaul including many new parts. IMO this is 30k worth of value with the new prop. I’m just not sure about the airframe. It’s been sitting a lot over its lifetime but the PO have painted it twice recently (94 and 2009). That might mean it spent some time outside or the owner just wanted to keep it looking nice. I’d have a service center carefully look over the airframe on this one. If the airframe checks out and you are prepared to put in some real money to catch up on maintenance this might make you a great plane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 108 hours between Aug 2017 and April 2018 is positive. I agree the engine overhaul looks good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 one other note, the last few inspections were completed by someone who did not know Mooneys, it is evident in their sign off, they also did nor list any AD's being complied with. meaning the landing gear has not been properly checked in years, among other things. Did you see if SB 208 was accomplished? That is one that I always look for.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Saavy aviator will check your logs for free and render an opinion. As a first time buyer I'd make full use of their service. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted March 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Guys thanks for all. Can you believe the broker just call and said you know what, it was an error the price is 62,500$ Wow, what an unprofessional approach. However I really appreciate your advice and your help. And I start looking for another offer. If you know somebody who wants sell Mooney, I'm interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, Bart said: Guys thanks for all. Can you believe the broker just call and said you know what, it was an error the price is 62,500$ Wow, what an unprofessional approach. However I really appreciate your advice and your help. And I start looking for another offer. If you know somebody who wants sell Mooney, I'm interested. if that plane is worth 62K, then mine is worth 90-95K. I think the broker needs @jgarrison price guide 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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