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Mooney M20M GX Bravo Prebuy - LPC Aviation


JJV7109

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JJV if your lucky enough to find a Bravo GX with WAAS and ADSB I would jump on it the cost has been depressed due to the aforementioned issues with WAAS, ADSB and the Mooney certification. This being my third Mooney it's easily my favorite in what the plane can do, I was one of the unlucky ones buying at new cost with out knowledge of the future issues with WAAS and ADSB I have no hope of getting anywhere near what the market would have been if not for Mooney and Garmin's issues. That being said if the plane your looking at isn't upgraded I would contact Mr Maxwell to see if you could procure a WAAS kit if so then you'd have a lot of plane at a discounted cost otherwise you need to wait for one of us to sell ours. If not for Mooneyspace I most likely would not have the knowledge of the issues with the airframe being married to the avionics. In this market favoring the seller at last, just stay patient a good plane will come along hopefully it will a great Mooney

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9 hours ago, JJV7109 said:

Regarding non-WAAS capable G1000s...I understand you can't fly LPV approaches but as far as meeting ADSB requirements why can't you utilize the GDL88 with internal WAAS with the G1000? The Garmin site says they're compatible I think they run around $5K. 

I reached out to Mooney regarding the non-WAAS G1000s to see what the gospel is these days. I saw a message from Don Maxwell back in June 2018 where he spoke with Mooney and they confirmed Garmin is no longer making GIA63W. Heck they're as bad as Apple when it comes to having to upgrade to new products!! Anyway, I'm not necessarily concerned about LPV approaches. If I can use the GDL88 with a non-WAAS G1000 to have ADSB in/out then I think I'd be ok with a non-WAAS G1000. I know my limitations and I probably wouldn't put myself in a situation where I be so close to minimums I needed LPV precision. Plus unless I strike it super rich this will probably be my first and last AC purchase! Who knows maybe as tech improves I can replace the G1000 down the road without costing an arm and leg!

With due respect, I think you are thinking about it the wrong way. Having LPV approaches available to you  increases your margin of safety immeasurably.

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Thanks for all the great responses.  Based on the great advice both through the forum and PMs I've decided against the non-WAAS G1000. I agree that having WAAS and being able to do LPV significantly increases the safety margin. The path to converting a non-WAAS G1000 to WAAS is too expensive plus newer panels (Avidyne Evolution or Garmin 500NXI) outperform the older G1000s.  It seems to me the best option is a non-G1000 equipped AC for the right price and slowly upgrade to either a Aspen or Garmin 500NXI with either Avidyne IFD 540/440 or Garmin GTN 650/550.

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1 hour ago, JJV7109 said:

Thanks for all the great responses.  Based on the great advice both through the forum and PMs I've decided against the non-WAAS G1000. I agree that having WAAS and being able to do LPV significantly increases the safety margin. The path to converting a non-WAAS G1000 to WAAS is too expensive plus newer panels (Avidyne Evolution or Garmin 500NXI) outperform the older G1000s.  It seems to me the best option is a non-G1000 equipped AC for the right price and slowly upgrade to either a Aspen or Garmin 500NXI with either Avidyne IFD 540/440 or Garmin GTN 650/550.

I'm late to the party here but I want to first say welcome!  I was in exactly your position late last summer - trying to compare and contrast equipment options on a Bravo vs Ovation ( G1000 or not, TKS etc).  I opted for a '95 Bravo with TKS, an Aspen 1000 Pro, GDL-88 (ADS-B in and out), GTX 330ES (Also ADS-B out - Transmits on 1090MHz, allowing for higher altitudes, etc), and GTN 750 (WAAS, of course).  

It was extremely hard for me to give up on the mystique of the G1000 because my last two airplanes had it (2005 Ovation 2 GX without WAAS and 2007 Acclaim S with WAAS, Synthetic Vision, etc) and I re activated my license after 8 years hiatus in a G1000 equipped Ovation.  In hindsight, I am very pleased I made the choice I did.  I could not afford another Acclaim Type S and I would not go back to a non-WAAS aircraft for the simple reason that I want the safety margin as was previously mentioned.   

The Bravo is a great airplane if you fly it correctly.  BTW:  I purchased mine from Jimmy Garrison at AAA.  He seemed to me to be honest and knowledgable.  Please do consider having a full annual inspection prior to purchase at a MSC and let them take their time with it.  I talked an MSC into squeezing me in on short notice for a pre-buy and annual and it was not a good experience for either of us (and costly for us both, too).   I'm by no means an expert on this forum but I can provide you with personal ownership experiences with late model Ovations, Bravos and Acclaims if it helps.  Please PM me if I can help.

 

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As noted in this thread, the G1000 can be as big a negative as it is a plus due to upgrade issues.  My 2000 Ovation 2 has the six pack and I'm slowly upgrading the avionics.  Although I don't have the big screen yet, I can fly the LPV approaches and I have ADS-B in on the GTN 750 as well as voice commands, so in some senses it is more capable.  Eventually I will get the screen.  And if something better comes up down the line, I'm free to make that upgrade too.

If your mission requires high altitude, then the Bravo is a great choice.  If you have MEA's to deal with and don't mind wearing oxygen, its faster.  Otherwise, the Ovation does a really great job.  Admittedly, it was a little cool out yesterday and I was on the lighter side, but I climbed from basically sea level to 10500 in 9 minutes and that wasn't even at full power.   Climb rate starts slowing down from there but its still reasonable till at least 15k or so.  I have O2 and have only usedit a couple times to make sure it works.  Either I'm flying west and the winds are too high up there, or I've got the dog in the plane.  So, most of our flights are below 12k.  The Ovation is a great fit for that.

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 I live on the East Coast and always heard for years that there is no need to have a turbocharged aircraft if you do most of your flying in the east. Personally, although I still own a normally aspirated fixed gear Saratoga, I would never again get non-turbo charged piston aircraft. I do most of my trips in the Bravo  in the mid to high teens, and it is great to get up in the cool smooth air, have the ability to get over much of the weather, catch favorable winds, etc.  I know that there are some that might not like strapping on a cannula, but it really doesn’t bother me. You also have a nice block of semi private air space with not many other aircraft operating in that altitude range since the big iron operates higher and most of the general aviation fleet operates lower. 

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18 minutes ago, Bravoman said:

I would never again get non-turbo charged piston aircraft. I do most of my trips in the Bravo  in the mid to high teens, and it is great to get up in the cool smooth air, have the ability to get over much of the weather, catch favorable winds, etc.  I know that there are some that might not like strapping on a cannula, but it really doesn’t bother me. You also have a nice block of semi private air space with not many other aircraft operating in that altitude range since the big iron operates higher and most of the general aviation fleet operates lower. 

With a 3 month and 2 year old the only way I’m going to find that smooth cool air is to park a Malibu in the hangar...yet I still find myself on the hunt for the perfect condition K. 

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21 minutes ago, Bravoman said:

 I live on the East Coast and always heard for years that there is no need to have a turbocharged aircraft if you do most of your flying in the east. Personally, although I still own a normally aspirated fixed gear Saratoga, I would never again get non-turbo charged piston aircraft. I do most of my trips in the Bravo  in the mid to high teens, and it is great to get up in the cool smooth air, have the ability to get over much of the weather, catch favorable winds, etc.  I know that there are some that might not like strapping on a cannula, but it really doesn’t bother me. You also have a nice block of semi private air space with not many other aircraft operating in that altitude range since the big iron operates higher and most of the general aviation fleet operates lower. 

I think a lot depends on how much travel you are doing in the summer and where on the east coast. My F will get up to 12k and that is usually enough for the majority of the weather (and certainly the terrain) found on the east coast. Where the benefit, aside of the winds, is on those hot summer days where operating at 14 to 16k will give you a better view of the building cumulus and when you are going over the higher terrain along the Appalachians.  

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39 minutes ago, Bravoman said:

 I live on the East Coast and always heard for years that there is no need to have a turbocharged aircraft if you do most of your flying in the east. Personally, although I still own a normally aspirated fixed gear Saratoga, I would never again get non-turbo charged piston aircraft. I do most of my trips in the Bravo  in the mid to high teens, and it is great to get up in the cool smooth air, have the ability to get over much of the weather, catch favorable winds, etc.  I know that there are some that might not like strapping on a cannula, but it really doesn’t bother me. You also have a nice block of semi private air space with not many other aircraft operating in that altitude range since the big iron operates higher and most of the general aviation fleet operates lower. 

Also, not in high-terriain (AR) but I agree with the above statement.  It would be very hard not to get a turbo again unless it is a bush plane or an RV.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/17/2019 at 11:52 PM, JJV7109 said:

Regarding non-WAAS capable G1000s...I understand you can't fly LPV approaches but as far as meeting ADSB requirements why can't you utilize the GDL88 with internal WAAS with the G1000? The Garmin site says they're compatible I think they run around $5K. 

I reached out to Mooney regarding the non-WAAS G1000s to see what the gospel is these days. I saw a message from Don Maxwell back in June 2018 where he spoke with Mooney and they confirmed Garmin is no longer making GIA63W. Heck they're as bad as Apple when it comes to having to upgrade to new products!! Anyway, I'm not necessarily concerned about LPV approaches. If I can use the GDL88 with a non-WAAS G1000 to have ADSB in/out then I think I'd be ok with a non-WAAS G1000. I know my limitations and I probably wouldn't put myself in a situation where I be so close to minimums I needed LPV precision. Plus unless I strike it super rich this will probably be my first and last AC purchase! Who knows maybe as tech improves I can replace the G1000 down the road without costing an arm and leg!

Just saw that there are 2 GIA63Ws for sale on Beechtalk this morning.

 

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=165834

Good morning, 

I'm helping a friend going through his inventory and he has (2) GIA 63W that apparently are NOS (still in Garmin's packaging) but have no paperwork. P/N is 011-01105-01.

Any offers?

Cheers, 

William

 

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They are not interchangeable between different type  airframes , Even though Garmin makes the parts , They are not stc parts , they are "Airframe parts " That being said , they are Cessna stock , so probably for a Cessna or beech...

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