bruceyung Posted March 10, 2019 Report Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) Good evening fellow mooney pilots . Id like to hear some tips and opinions about cold weather ops with a M20B. I do have some concerns about my mooneys. “Carb air” , does it only work as a secondary “normal” air option ? or does it relocate heated air? how would this alternative air system work in cold weather ops? I live down in Brazil , never had a problem w building up ice in my carb. Im looking forward to fly down to Bariloche, Argentina mid june where temperatures are between 46/30 F. Usually it starts to snow at this time of year . I would love to hear and understand better about the “carb air” .Any tips and opinions regarding cold weather ops in my O-360-A1D are welcome . Thanks for your kind help safe flight Bruce Edited March 10, 2019 by bruceyung Quote
Hank Posted March 10, 2019 Report Posted March 10, 2019 The most important thing is starting. My C has an oil pan heater that I plug in when temps are near freezing. If not, try to get inside a heated hangar for an hour, it makes starting much easier. Follow the Cold Weather procedure in your Owners Manual. The only thing I do different besides the heating is after pumping the throttle 4-5 times is wait a minute or two for the cold fuel to evaporate before cranking. To slow me down, I wind and set the yoke clock and put on / adjust my headset, then crank. 1 Quote
bruceyung Posted March 10, 2019 Author Report Posted March 10, 2019 thanks hank , appreciate your help. i was reading other forums and some say all engines do need pre heat under 30F including wind chill factor . Is this temperature correct? Some prefere to prime other than pumping as lycoming does not recomend pump staring. Thanks , youre info was great . Safe flights Bruce Quote
Hank Posted March 10, 2019 Report Posted March 10, 2019 2 hours ago, bruceyung said: thanks hank , appreciate your help. i was reading other forums and some say all engines do need pre heat under 30F including wind chill factor . Is this temperature correct? Some prefere to prime other than pumping as lycoming does not recomend pump staring. Thanks , youre info was great . Safe flights Bruce I like to preheat in the mid- to low-40s or lower, air temp (there's no wind chill inside the hangar). Also, our engines do not have primers. I leave throttle and mixture all the way out and run the fuel pump until fuel pressure stabilizes, then cut it off. Mixture to Full Rich, pump the throttle full stroke several times and watch Fuel Pressure go down a little on each pump. Then do the clock and headset before cranking. My C doesn't have "Carb Air" but it does have "Carb Heat". This brings warm, unfiltered air from under the cowl into the carb instead of outside air through the air filter. It's purpose is to melt ice that may form in the carburetor; in twelve years, I've never had any carb ice, and have pulled partial Carb Heat to get the Carb Temp needle above the orange stripe exactly twice, flying in IMC with my CFII in Ohio. Have a great trip! I don't know where Bariloche is, but I hope to get back to Ushuaia sometime. My visit there was far too short! And without a plane to fly. 1 Quote
DXB Posted March 10, 2019 Report Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) Preheat engine in cold weather - that’s all. Also preheat cabin if you want to limit wear on the gyros. I preheat at <50F. Below 40F it is quite hard to start. Below 30F it is near impossible to start without preheat and also quite destructive to the engine to even try. It becomes more important to heat cylinders and oil uniformly at the lowest temps - it’s not just about fuel vaporization to make it fire but preventing damage. Carb heat has nothing specific to do with cold weather ops, except at very low temps carb ice is unlikely because there’s very little water in the air. The Mooney is pretty resistant to ice anyway. Edited March 10, 2019 by DXB 1 Quote
bruceyung Posted March 10, 2019 Author Report Posted March 10, 2019 @bluehighwayflyer thanks . The previous owner scalped both landing gear doors in order to get a more acessable angle when putting air into the tires . Brake line is fine ots just a bit longer in order to have some margin if streched out buy any problems and brake lose . It has come like this since I bought it . had questioned the mechanic before but thats the answer I got. safe flights Bruce Quote
bruceyung Posted March 10, 2019 Author Report Posted March 10, 2019 @DXB thanks for youre post , it was of great help. Will take all tips in consideration towards my flight . Any specific ,good And well priced pre heaters to buy? Going to sun n fun and ill take a look at those . thanks Bruce Quote
DXB Posted March 10, 2019 Report Posted March 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, bruceyung said: @DXB thanks for youre post , it was of great help. Will take all tips in consideration towards my flight . Any specific ,good And well priced pre heaters to buy? Going to sun n fun and ill take a look at those . thanks Bruce Call the field in advance and see if they have (1) blow preheaters (2) a way to plug in a heater if you decide to get one (3) space in a heated hangar. If they can reliably give you a blow preheat before your departure, then the trouble to get a heater installed for just one trip may not be worth it. A heated hangar would be ideal, in which case no need for preheat. Tanis and Reiff are the biggest names in electric heaters. Reiff is a small company, a bit cheaper, but well made and possibly a better value. The lowest cost versions of both systems heat just the oil sump and are very easy to install. The better ones heat both cylinders and sump. Heating the sump alone is just fine if you are going to leave plugged in overnight with some insulation (e.g. sleeping bag) over the cowl. The sump heaters should not be left plugged in all the time. The ones with additional elements to heat the cylinders are not as bad to leave plugged in for longer periods. The best ones (e.g. Reiff Turbo XP) can have you ready to go in 2 hours after plugging in, in 20F weather. Some guys here carry small portable gas generators to run their heaters when there's no place to plug in. If you want to avoid the trouble of an install, you could also go carry something like this, keeping in mind you'd want it plugged in for a least a few hours with insulation over the cowl if temps are very low. https://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/twin-hornet-22-engine-heater.html?utm_source=google_shopping&m=simple&mrkgcl=596&mrkgadid=3215422270&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Aircraft+Supplies&adpos=1o5&creative=295428069985&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhfzOvob44AIVDp6fCh09tgfaEAQYBSABEgLXcfD_BwE 1 Quote
Hank Posted March 10, 2019 Report Posted March 10, 2019 1 hour ago, bruceyung said: @bluehighwayflyer thanks . The previous owner scalped both landing gear doors in order to get a more acessable angle when putting air into the tires . Brake line is fine ots just a bit longer in order to have some margin if streched out buy any problems and brake lose . It has come like this since I bought it . had questioned the mechanic before but thats the answer I got. safe flights Bruce My air valves are in the inside of the wheels, facing each other, not on the outside facing toward the wingtips . . . . 1 Quote
DonMuncy Posted March 10, 2019 Report Posted March 10, 2019 53 minutes ago, Hank said: My air valves are in the inside of the wheels, facing each other, not on the outside facing toward the wingtips . . . . So are mine, and all the ones I have taken time to notice. I wonder if there is a reason someone would put them on the outside. Perhaps an attempt to equalize some tire tread wear? 1 Quote
Hank Posted March 11, 2019 Report Posted March 11, 2019 1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said: I guess that means his brake discs and calipers are mounted inboard, which would explain the irregular brake line routimg. I don’t think that would fly here in the states, so to speak, but it would be very interesting to see how it all fits together. Jim How is it different from the LASAR Brake Rotation STC? Other than the wheels seem turned around, too. Quote
steingar Posted March 11, 2019 Report Posted March 11, 2019 Being south of the border I assume it would be cost effective to hire a campesino to hold a space heater up to the cowling prior to takeoff. Used to preheat my cherokee that way (space heaters, not campesinos) Quote
bruceyung Posted March 12, 2019 Author Report Posted March 12, 2019 @bluehighwayflyer ill snap a picture of the brake system on my next flight and post it here. Safe flights Bruce Quote
carusoam Posted March 21, 2019 Report Posted March 21, 2019 Carb heat... see if the control is working properly, look at it with the side cowl off, operate the cable... you should see the small butterfly valve operate... check the hose that feeds the warm air, condition and connections to the heat muff... source of warm air... Consider getting a carb temp gauge, if you don’t have one... Carb heat can be greatly appreciated on very humid days... carb temp instrument allows higher level of power to be available during carb icing conditions... partial carb heat is good with the instrument, no good without it. Starting an M20C in cold weather without pre-heat is possible down to 20°F... lots of throttle pumping needed to prime the engine... Avoid starting without pre-heat if you can... tough on the engine, and a big risk of fire from all the excess fuel pouring on the tire... Below 20°F, the 100LL doesn’t evaporate enough... it might take all day, you won’t know if you have flooded the engine or not primed enough... PP thoughts only, My M20C lived outdoors in the winters of NJ... pre-heat was a special occasion... Best regards, -a- Quote
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