Aspen e5

[kris_adams]

The Aspen rep was at our airport yesterday and I got to see the e5 for the first time.  I have to say I was very impressed with how crisp and bright the display was.  It was very nice and looks so much nicer than a pair of g5s that were being installed.  I didn't realize that wind and TAS was not part of the e5 but requires the Pro to get it.   My real desire would be the e5 with HSI and SVT.  Of course that basically requires the Pro with an additional upgrade.

Costs:  5amu for the e5, 1amu for the analog converter to interface my CIIB autopilot and 3amu for the box to drive my autopilot without my attitude indicator.  So a base system (leaving my legacy attitude indicator) would be 6amu plus install (maybe a 0.5 amu discount btw).

Any way I look at this, I'm basically signing up for around 20amu over the next year or two by the time I'm done.

The box sure looked nice though!

[ArtVandelay]

Costs:  5amu for the e5, 1amu for the analog converter to interface my CIIB autopilot and 3amu for the box to drive my autopilot without my attitude indicator.  So a base system would be 6amu plus install (maybe a 0.5 amu discount btw).

Is this new math?
5+1+3=9 not 6.


Tom

[NJMac]

The Aspen rep was at our airport yesterday and I got to see the e5 for the first time.  I have to say I was very impressed with how crisp and bright the display was.  It was very nice and looks so much nicer than a pair of g5s that were being installed.  I didn't realize that wind and TAS was not part of the e5 but requires the Pro to get it.   My real desire would be the e5 with HSI and SVT.  Of course that basically requires the Pro with an additional upgrade.
Costs:  5amu for the e5, 1amu for the analog converter to interface my CIIB autopilot and 3amu for the box to drive my autopilot without my attitude indicator.  So a base system would be 6amu plus install (maybe a 0.5 amu discount btw).
Any way I look at this, I'm basically signing up for around 20amu over the next year or two by the time I'm done.
The box sure looked nice though!

I've been meaning to get to my avionics shop to see their E5. Thanks for the pirep. My nav head 2 is way over on the right side panel and it sucks. An aspen or 2g5s would allow me to remedy that and i plan to do so this year.

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[kris_adams]

18 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Is this new math?
5+1+3=9 not 6.

Lol...I edited my original post to show the base system as leaving my existing attitude indicator thus saving the 3amu expense.  So 6amu plus install gets me into the Aspen ecosystem.

[kris_adams]

15 minutes ago, NJMac said:

I've been meaning to get to my avionics shop to see their E5. Thanks for the pirep. My nav head 2 is way over on the right side panel and it sucks. An aspen or 2g5s would allow me to remedy that and i plan to do so this year.

I love that it can drive both Nav heads.  I think I'd pull both of mine out if I do the Aspen unless someone else thinks differently.  I've also replaced my slaved dg already and I think it might be in need of replacement soon (this is where I like the G5 with HSI).  Not to turn this into e5 vs g5 but the e5 looks great while the g5 looks like a pair of old portable garmin GPS's mounted in a plane.  Still haven't made up my mind 100%.

[MIm20c]

26 minutes ago, Kris_Adams said:

I love that it can drive both Nav heads.  I think I'd pull both of mine out if I do the Aspen unless someone else thinks differently.  I've also replaced my slaved dg already and I think it might be in need of replacement soon (this is where I like the G5 with HSI).  Not to turn this into e5 vs g5 but the e5 looks great while the g5 looks like a pair of old portable garmin GPS's mounted in a plane.  Still haven't made up my mind 100%.

Watch the 2nd hand market for the ea100 and ACU (~$1500 and $600). Most shops will not mind using used adapters but are unwilling on the main system nor is the STC requirement. Also try for 12-15% off the E5 list price of 5k when looking at install shops. 

If you are completely happy with the E5 functionality I think it’s a great deal. However, if you are already thinking about an upgrade I’d look for a used pro system in that 5k price range and do the max upgrade before installation. 

[ArtVandelay]

Does E5 replace entire 6 pack, or is it just AI & DG replacement?


Tom

[Marauder]

The E5 is a good way to go if you are strapped for funds and can’t afford a full solution now. Upgrading the E5 to a full function PFD is a practical way to move forward.


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[Marauder]

Does E5 replace entire 6 pack, or is it just AI & DG replacement?


Tom

It can replace the VSI, AI & DG but the ASI and altimeter need to stay.


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[NJMac]

The E5 is a good way to go if you are strapped for funds and can’t afford a full solution now. Upgrading the E5 to a full function PFD is a practical way to move forward.


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Dealer told me today that its negligible difference in price between upgrading a new pro1000 vs upgrading an E5, both going to a promax. Guess he didn't compare just buying a promax to start with

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[larrynimmo]

If you install the current E1000, you have to have a suitable AI as a backup.  With the E5 you don't need an AI back-up.  The E5 is new, and physically, electronically, processor and screen is the exact model that the new E1000 Pro Max pfd...If you have the new E5, you can update the software (for 5AMU) and it will be the E1000 Pro Max pfd and hopefully will be approved for use without a back-up AI.  If you purchase the current E1000 and want to later upgrade it to the new Promax they had a $1,995 special price...to do this, the current unit needs to be removed from the plane, they will replace the screen and the processor (4x faster) give you a new 2 year warranty and then it has to be re-installed

[gsxrpilot]

5 hours ago, Kris_Adams said:

I love that it can drive both Nav heads.  I think I'd pull both of mine out if I do the Aspen unless someone else thinks differently.  I've also replaced my slaved dg already and I think it might be in need of replacement soon (this is where I like the G5 with HSI).  Not to turn this into e5 vs g5 but the e5 looks great while the g5 looks like a pair of old portable garmin GPS's mounted in a plane.  Still haven't made up my mind 100%.

I've got the Aspen PFD Pro. I can display up to three nav sources simultaneously on the HSI. So I removed all the other Nav heads to clean up the panel and reduce weight. 

 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, larrynimmo said:

If you install the current E1000, you have to have a suitable AI as a backup.  With the E5 you don't need an AI back-up. (Correction - it doesn't "require" a back-up. Time will tell whether you "need" a backup*)   E5 is new, and physically, electronically, processor and screen is the exact model that the new E1000 Pro Max pfd...If you have the new E5, you can update the software (for 5AMU) and it will be the E1000 Pro Max pfd and hopefully will be approved for use without a back-up AI.  If you purchase the current E1000 and want to later upgrade it to the new Promax they had a $1,995 special price...to do this, the current unit needs to be removed from the plane, they will replace the screen and the processor (4x faster) give you a new 2 year warranty and then it has to be re-installed

*There are a couple reasons even after the MAX upgrade I will still have a back-up attitude indicator, even though I have the PFD and reversionary mode MFD and even though legally I am not required to do so: (1) Both the PFD and MFD use the same software version - if there is a software bug, which I know is very unlikely, I will lose both PFD & MFD, but most importantly (2) Both PFD & MFD get their attitude source from one EA-100. If that goes, which can happen, I lose both attitude indicators. 

I want my backup to be a different method so I don't put all my eggs in one basket. My current thinking is that I will continue to use my Mid-Continent Lifesaver Electric Back-up Gyro (http://www.lifesavergyro.com/lifesaver-gyro/). It is mechanical and rated at 7500 Hour Mean Time Between Failure and has no software. It also has a backup battery which I can change out every three years for about $60 (http://csobeech.com/files/MidContinentBattery-9015607.pdf).

[Cruiser]

the common point of failure for the PFD/MFD is the pitot/static system. Both units have completely separate hardware and work independently except for that. The new MAX will has degraded AI support from a valid GPS source like Garmin. reducing the risk of pitot failure. 

[Steve W]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

 (2) Both PFD & MFD get their attitude source from one EA-100. If that goes, which can happen, I lose both attitude indicators. 

What? No, that's not how this works, that's not how any of this works.

The Autopilot gets attitude from a single EA100, if it fails then your autopilot loses attitude, the displays have on-board AHRS and send that to the EA100 to pass to the autopilot and function independently(as mentioned except for shared connections such as pitot-static and electricity). You don't even need an EA100 if you're not driving an autopilot.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Steve W

[LANCECASPER]

14 minutes ago, Steve W said:

What? No, that's not how this works, that's not how any of this works.

The Autopilot gets attitude from a single EA100, if it fails then your autopilot loses attitude, the displays have on-board AHRS and send that to the EA100 to pass to the autopilot and function independently(as mentioned except for shared connections such as pitot-static and electricity). You don't even need an EA100 if you're not driving an autopilot.

Ok thanks for the correction on point number 2.

Personally, I'm still going to have a backup for reason #1. Plus I already own the backup AI and it's already installed. No reason to remove it.

[tigers2007]

AvWeb's Dec 2018 article about the E5:

 

 

"The E5's STC doesn't, however, allow for removing the airspeed, altimeter and turn coordinator instruments."

 

I was quoted $7500 for a new E5 installed if I supplied the ACU and EA100. I read the installation manual and it will be one hell of a job just configuring it. The Century will also require a $250 transformer adapter box to interface with the EA100 interface lol.

 

Last week I called my A&P and had him just pull the AI and DG to have them overhauled while I continue to save my pennies for my future Aspen/Garmin/AeroVonics upgrade.

 

 

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[MIm20c]

22 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

I was quoted $7500 for a new E5 installed if I supplied the ACU and EA100. I read the installation manual and it will be one hell of a job just configuring it. The Century will also require a $250 transformer adapter box to interface with the EA100 interface lol.

That’s a fair quote IMO as the ea100 is a lot of extra work. The AV30 with the external AP adapter is not going to make the process any easier.  I’m amazed how well the aspen interfaces with legacy equipment. 

I’d really think hard in your situation about saving the extra $3+k in labor and equipment and go with the E5 and TT and keep the legacy gear separate. 

[Marauder]

What? No, that's not how this works, that's not how any of this works.
The Autopilot gets attitude from a single EA100, if it fails then your autopilot loses attitude, the displays have on-board AHRS and send that to the EA100 to pass to the autopilot and function independently(as mentioned except for shared connections such as pitot-static and electricity). You don't even need an EA100 if you're not driving an autopilot.

I can add one other feature that isn’t well known about the Aspens. If for any reason the AHRS/Nav signal is lost while connected to the autopilot, the autopilot will be given a wings level command. Found this out when my throw-over switch got stuck in the wrong position. See the video below. I thought it was an STEC issue, turned out to be the Aspen not feeding Nav information to the AP.

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[tigers2007]

25 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

That’s a fair quote IMO as the ea100 is a lot of extra work. The AV30 with the external AP adapter is not going to make the process any easier.  I’m amazed how well the aspen interfaces with legacy equipment. 

I’d really think hard in your situation about saving the extra $3+k in labor and equipment and go with the E5 and TT and keep the legacy gear separate. 

Adding in a TT would add 6 maybe 7.5 AMU into the mix. The same installer, Advance AeroTechnologies is/was advertising the E5 with ACU installed for $6800 ($5800 for just the E5). I suppose its not worth the $3500 EXTRA for the EA100 with installation just to give up the vacuum AI versus putting that $$$ in the TruTrak piggy bank for a later time. I only have a Century IIb so I only get heading control (pathetic).

Wow I hope the CB Club enforcement team aren't reading this.

 

[MIm20c]

8 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

Adding in a TT would add 6 maybe 7.5 AMU into the mix. The same installer, Advance AeroTechnologies is/was advertising the E5 with ACU installed for $6800 ($5800 for just the E5). I suppose its not worth the $3500 EXTRA for the EA100 with installation just to give up the vacuum AI versus putting that $$$ in the TruTrak piggy bank for a later time. I only have a Century IIb so I only get heading control (pathetic).

Wow I hope the CB Club enforcement team aren't reading this.

 

No reason to add the ACU for the TT or your Garmin navigator. Wiring is dead simple and you might get out the door for under 13k using the numbers you listed.  After you’ve broke free from the CB chains, with my expensive suggestions, I’ll fly up from AZO and buy the first round. 

[tigers2007]

See, if I wouldn't have "retired" from my last job and transferred to my new job (and taken almost a 50% cut in pay) then I would have already plopped the stacks of c-notes on the counter I have been doing for years. But she made me move West... Its all about maintaining sanity I guess.

[larrynimmo]

4 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

*There are a couple reasons even after the MAX upgrade I will still have a back-up attitude indicator, even though I have the PFD and reversionary mode MFD and even though legally I am not required to do so: (1) Both the PFD and MFD use the same software version - if there is a software bug, which I know is very unlikely, I will lose both PFD & MFD, but most importantly (2) Both PFD & MFD get their attitude source from one EA-100. If that goes, which can happen, I lose both attitude indicators. 

I want my backup to be a different method so I don't put all my eggs in one basket. My current thinking is that I will continue to use my Mid-Continent Lifesaver Electric Back-up Gyro (http://www.lifesavergyro.com/lifesaver-gyro/). It is mechanical and rated at 7500 Hour Mean Time Between Failure and has no software. It also has a backup battery which I can change out every three years for about $60 (http://csobeech.com/files/MidContinentBattery-9015607.pdf).

all very good points....but I will tell you...my avionics installer was "holding me hostage" requiring me to install a G5 as my only option at an extra 3k....I am willing to take a reasonable risk with my existing instruments as back-up...if all else fails...I have an app on my phone and my ipad, and my back-up ipad

....see picture...I definitely want a back up, and I have my eye on the AV-30 once it is tso'd

Edited March 8, 2019 by larrynimmo

[kris_adams]

Here's something else enticing to me...per the rep, the e5 is the exact same hardware as the new 1000 Pro Max-including any sensors, probes, or antennas.  If I wanted to upgrade the only thing required is software.  He said an e5 with software upgrades is the same exact price as the 1000Pro Max--figure I'd have to pay for some labor to do the upgrades but I think this would be reasonable in my circumstance.

Btw I haven't double checked this with the price guide yet

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Kris_Adams said:

Here's something else enticing to me...per the rep, the e5 is the exact same hardware as the new 1000 Pro Max-including any sensors, probes, or antennas.  If I wanted to upgrade the only thing required is software.  He said an e5 with software upgrades is the same exact price as the 1000Pro Max--figure I'd have to pay for some labor to do the upgrades but I think this would be reasonable in my circumstance.

Btw I haven't double checked this with the price guide yet

This is the same approach L-3 took with the Lynx 9000. The hardware to make it a 9000+ (active traffic) is already there but just needs to be activated through a software upgrade. Of course, I suspect the software won't be cheap but I have found Aspen (and L-3) will cut deals on software upgrades. Catch them around the shows.

Kris -- ever found out who owned your plane? I reached out to the guy who I think owned it, but he hasn't responded. He is getting up there in years and may not remember me.