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Electronics International CGR-30 Combo install with fuel senders and SureFly ignition


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The order has been placed and my partner and I are going with the Electronics International CGR-30 Combo unit in the '78 J.  Along with the gauges we are adding EI's magnetic fuel senders.  Overall this should be a fantastic upgrade as it is replacing every engine monitor gauge on the panel, including fuel levels and putting it right in front of our faces.  While we have everything ripped apart we are also adding a  SureFLy electronic ignition to replace the impulse mag.  For those of you that remember I just finished up an engine conversion from the A3B6-D to the dual drive A3B6, and we are systematically getting rid of the old problem children on the J to bring it into a modern magic carpet.  If anyone has any input or experience on the EI gauges please chime in.  The SureFLy was just certified so I would imagine we are one of the first ones putting it on a J.  As always I will keep everyone posted on the progress.

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Dave, according to SureFly, the genius's at the FAA have eliminated all turbo and twin aircraft from the AML, which is why the turbo Mooneys are missing, and they thought the J was a turbo model.  They expect an update to the AML in the next two weeks to include the J.

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14 minutes ago, MichMooney201 said:

Dave, according to SureFly, the genius's at the FAA have eliminated all turbo and twin aircraft from the AML, which is why the turbo Mooneys are missing, and they thought the J was a turbo model.  They expect an update to the AML in the next two weeks to include the J.

Well, a fair number of us J people(like Lizard People, but different) have the siamese mags so we can't use them. Except of course people like you who have done the conversion.

Edited by Steve W
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33 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Mich,

Can you elaborate on EI’s magnetic fuel senders?

Is this different from Ceis, or EI includes Ceis senders in their package?

This sounds new to me...

Sounds like a modern upgrade all around!

Best regards,

-a-

Anthony,

EI’s fuel senders are similar to the Ceis senders. I put them in my MOONEY and will never go back to the resistive senders. 

They are accurate through all ranges and very steady. I went from never trusting my fuel gauges to feeling confident of their accuracy 

Brian

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...”and they thought the J was a turbo model.”

You know, as bazaar as this sounds, it actually makes some sense now. I couldn’t imagine why the J wasn’t on SureFly’s  AML. I thought maybe the FAA assumed that all the Js had the dual-mag.

Mitch, will you be setting the SureFly SIM to 20 degrees BTDC as per Lycoming’s service instruction? Or 25 BTDC, as per the A3B6 type certificate?

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On 3/10/2019 at 11:06 AM, John Mininger said:

...”and they thought the J was a turbo model.”

You know, as bazaar as this sounds, it actually makes some sense now. I couldn’t imagine why the J wasn’t on SureFly’s  AML. I thought maybe the FAA assumed that all the Js had the dual-mag.

Mitch, will you be setting the SureFly SIM to 20 degrees BTDC as per Lycoming’s service instruction? Or 25 BTDC, as per the A3B6 type certificate?

The current engine STC only allows for and specifies fixed timing based on the engine plate which on a Slick magged motor is 20 BTDC, 26 for those with Bendix mags.  The type certificate does not specify the mag to be used so owners can go with either mag setup, however the remans come from Lycoming with the Slick mag, and the Surefly uses the slick mag harness so it seemed to make sense to just stay with the Slick mag, knowing we were getting the Surefly anyway.  As soon as the STC is updated for timing advance we will make the change to the switches on the SIM and enjoy the benefits of timing advance

It is possible the FAA thought all J's had the dual mag single drive set-up, however the A3B6D is not certified in the engine STC, and I am not sure what other planes use the A3B6D motor so it would seem the FAA would have caught themselves in a circular reference.  For some reason the mental picture of a dog with the letters FAA tatooed on its side chasing its tails seems quite appropriate.

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On 3/6/2019 at 5:36 PM, orionflt said:

Anthony,

EI’s fuel senders are similar to the Ceis senders. I put them in my MOONEY and will never go back to the resistive senders. 

They are accurate through all ranges and very steady. I went from never trusting my fuel gauges to feeling confident of their accuracy 

Brian

Brian,

Did you have to send your old fuel senders to EI so they could copy the mounting plates or adjust the booms to match for the new EI ones?  How long were you waiting for the new senders from EI?

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5 hours ago, MichMooney201 said:

Brian,

Did you have to send your old fuel senders to EI so they could copy the mounting plates or adjust the booms to match for the new EI ones?  How long were you waiting for the new senders from EI?

yes i did

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  • 10 months later...

Update for the community...

The EI gauges are a fantastic addition to the panel and we are so glad all the old analogue stuff is out.  We also put the new fuel sending units in the fuel tanks and my how nice it is to have an accurate reading of fuel quantities.  Everything is working as advertised and so not having to look across the panel for RPM's and Manifold because its right in front of you is very nice.  Overall very pleased with the installation.  I did manage to loose the oil pressure sending unit at 8000' and the gauge went straight to 0 PSI which is enough to give you heart failure but the engine hummed along fine on the rapid descent to a runway and EI replaced the sender under warranty, and it was a 5 minute repair to replace.  They indicated it has been very rare one of these things has gone bad, of course, but it did on mine.  I had debated keeping an extra part in the plane at a cost of $195.00, but I am hopeful this is a one time deal.  All in all, I am very pleased with these things!!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just finished installing the EI CGR-30P.

To move along the install I used some of the Insight G-3 sensors.  All in all a pretty seamless transition.

We mounted the EDC-33 above the rudder pedals on the pilot side, so far so good as I am 5'8-9"ish (shrinking with age) and my feet do not come close to it.

Bought it a OSH and factory was helpful with any questions during install.

Enjoy. 

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Just this month SureFly added the M20K to Mooneys that can replace a mag with a SEM6. Since variable timing is based upon MAP the turbo models are approved for fixed timing only. While that might be disappointing there are still several good reasons to go ei even with fixed timing.

The reason most Js are not candidates for ei is the dual mag set up. In certified aircraft EI can only replace one mag.  

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/14/2020 at 7:38 AM, bob865 said:

I'm about to start the install of the CGR-30 package too.  Where did you mount the EDC-33?

Bob...sorry for the delayed response... the computer is on the right side of the panel behind the panel blanks, but mounted above the VOR radios.  We have our Stratus stashed back there too.

FYI, I'm a Riverside HS grad...lived in Greenville for about 8 years, fly into Donaldson all the time to visit friends.

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On 2/14/2020 at 10:21 AM, Bob_Belville said:

Just this month SureFly added the M20K to Mooneys that can replace a mag with a SEM6. Since variable timing is based upon MAP the turbo models are approved for fixed timing only. While that might be disappointing there are still several good reasons to go ei even with fixed timing.

The reason most Js are not candidates for ei is the dual mag set up. In certified aircraft EI can only replace one mag.  

Bob...in my most snarky face...unless you replace the entire motor in a J like I did and go with the dual drive mag...  The Surefly is for sure not a good reason to replace a motor but having the electronic ignition has made SOOOOO many things easier...like hot starts...smotth idles...

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15 hours ago, MichMooney201 said:

Bob...sorry for the delayed response... the computer is on the right side of the panel behind the panel blanks, but mounted above the VOR radios.  We have our Stratus stashed back there too.

FYI, I'm a Riverside HS grad...lived in Greenville for about 8 years, fly into Donaldson all the time to visit friends.

Come on the extra couple of miles to GMU and say hi when your're around next time.

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I have the EI fuel sending units and really like them! 
 

As for the Surefly and dual mags, it seem like they could easily just put one of the mags(or half the mag) to sleep when adding the Surefly and solve a lot of people concerns with the dual mags.

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  • 4 months later...
20 hours ago, bob865 said:

Hey @MichMooney201.  I just installed my CGR finally and fired it up today, but had no RPM.  EI is telling me to keep trying smaller resistors to get it to work.  Did you have any issues with yours?  Do you know what value you ended up having to use to get it to work?

What type of ignition is installed on the aircraft?

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What isolator (resistor) values are currently installed between the slick mag and EDC and between the SureFly and EDC?  We're the RPM inputs to the EDC ever connected without isolators? If so, the EDC's RPM inputs may be blown and the EDC will need to be returned for repair.

 I always recommend starting with a single 79k isolator (provided in the package) for Slick and Bendix mags and observe how the  RPM indication behaves.  If the indication is jumpy and high, there isn't enough isolation and an additional resistor should be added (79k or 47k).  If the indication is jumpy and low and may not read until higher power settings, there is likely too much isolation and that value should be reduced.  The SureFly system is a bit more difficult as what SureFly recommends to use with our systems, doesn't always work.  We have contacted their engineers to ascertain exactly what signal their system outputs and from what we can determine a 24.1k isolator should work with our systems which utilize and EDC-33.  Worth noting, that value of isolator will not be enough with our standard R-1 tachometers which are configured for standard magnetos.  

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