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Mooney Service Center Annuals


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I'm due for an annual in a few months. I've always used my Local A&P who does a good job and is quite knowledgeable about Mooneys, But I'm considering every few annuals going to a MSC. 

First, any thought s on that  approach ?

Second, Any experiences (Good and BAD) with the MSC's on the west coast? (California/Oregon maybe?) or other recommendations.

(Thanks in advance for all your collective wisdoms)

Roger

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If money is no object- a MSC is not a bad idea.

if you’ve got an A&P IA that you trust implicitly, that knows your plane inside and out- then their is little reason to stray IMO.  

Some say their is benefit in a fresh set of eyes.  That would be the primary benefit of having a MSC take a look- but it will most likely cost you.

I used LASAR a few times under the previous ownership.  Ok service, knowledgeable A&P’s, inconvenient to get to, very expensive rates (compared to my other shop experiences).

i used the MSC at Chandler this year, and the rates there were in line with LASAR’s rates, and had a very similar experience for annual. Knowledgeable, good work, but expensive.

Edited by M016576
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A MSC is not necessarily more money. Typically, they can take less time to do a task because of familiarity and in the case of inspections, will have a good understanding of the airframe and engine combo they are inspecting for weak areas. The well known, fairly priced MSC's are often touted here by me and others. My short non inclusive list include Maxwell, Oasis, AGL, SWTA, Daytona, DLK and Cole. I have left off the west coast guys as I do not have first hand experience other than some parts ordering here and there, but Others will chime in to their experience. Not all MSC'S are created equal, and are only as good as the wrist and brain behind the wrench.

There are a lot of non MSC's that are truly excellent like Boyd Birchler, Ivan James, Phil Jiminez, Arnold Holmes, Larry Wheelock, Bob Meier (and a host of others) who also possess tribal knowledge, correct tooling and can cost effectively work on a Mooney competently

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What @mike_elliottsaid. I spend a lot of time out at SWTA as they're on the same field as I am. I regularly see Mooneys come in for annual that have been with a "local A&P" for years and JD typically finds lots of "differed" issues. Mooneys are not difficult to work on or maintain, but since they aren't as plentiful as say Cessnas, many A&P's only see one to two of them. That just isn't enough to really learn about some of the issues unique to Mooneys. There are specific areas that commonly wear on Mooneys and an A&P that doesn't work on them often might not know. It's no fault of their own, just inexperience with the breed.

I like using an MSC for all my maintenance and am fortunate to be on the field with one of the good ones. 

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2 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

What @mike_elliottsaid. I spend a lot of time out at SWTA as they're on the same field as I am. I regularly see Mooneys come in for annual that have been with a "local A&P" for years and JD typically finds lots of "differed" issues. Mooneys are not difficult to work on or maintain, but since they aren't as plentiful as say Cessnas, many A&P's only see one to two of them. That just isn't enough to really learn about some of the issues unique to Mooneys. There are specific areas that commonly wear on Mooneys and an A&P that doesn't work on them often might not know. It's no fault of their own, just inexperience with the breed.

I like using an MSC for all my maintenance and am fortunate to be on the field with one of the good ones. 

+1. I concur with Mike and Paul and my experience seeing Mooneys come into @AGL Aviationwould be similar to Paul's experience at SWTA except I suppose that since I'm retired I am at AGL more. (Tomorrow I'm picking up another E owner from Greensboro whose plane just got new fuel bladders installed by AGL.)

As to costs, AGL does annuals at a fixed price which are published on their website.    

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The well known, fairly priced MSC's are often touted here by me and others. My short non inclusive list include Maxwell, Oasis, AGL, SWTA, Daytona, DLK and Cole.
There are a lot of non MSC's that are truly excellent like Boyd Birchler, Ivan James, Phil Jiminez, Arnold Holmes, Larry Wheelock, Bob Meier (and a host of others) who also possess tribal knowledge

It would be nice if you can add actual shop names and airport codes, for future reference, if I’m on a trip and having issues I know where to go.
TIA,


Tom
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12 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:


It would be nice if you can add actual shop names and airport codes, for future reference, if I’m on a trip and having issues I know where to go.
TIA,


Tom

There's a map of MSCs on the Mooney International website: https://www.mooney.com/service

FL: daytonaaircraft.com

GA: coleaviation.com & dlkaviation.com

MN: oasisaero.com

NC: aglaviation.com

TX: donmaxwell.com & swta.net

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3 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:


Right, but there was non MSCs as well, thx


Tom

Sure, but that's Mike list and he indicated the non MSC folks were typical and that there were many more. I know Boyd, he's in Indianapolis... 

If I needed help out of town I think I'd jump on MS and ask for a pirep re where I found myself. (I have called Lynn Mace (AGL) more than once from a ramp in the boonies.)

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Sure, but that's Mike list and he indicated the non MSC folks were typical and that there were many more. I know Boyd, he's in Indianapolis... 
If I needed help out of town I think I'd jump on MS and ask for a pirep re where I found myself. (I have called Lynn Mace (AGL) more than once from a ramp in the boonies.)

I was thinking it would be nice to put together a list for myself, so if I have a problem, while in the air, I could divert and not have to roll the dice.


Tom
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I take mine to Advanced at Troutdale Oregon. Their an MSC, I get to help with the annual and spend the week picking everyone’s brains. It’s a good vacation:) I would recommend them any day of the week...


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Sure, but that's Mike list and he indicated the non MSC folks were typical and that there were many more. I know Boyd, he's in Indianapolis... 

If I needed help out of town I think I'd jump on MS and ask for a pirep re where I found myself. (I have called Lynn Mace (AGL) more than once from a ramp in the boonies.)

If you find yourself needing maintenance and a non-msc is your only choice - reach out to an msc. I would like to think that most (if not all) are willing to give the mechanics guidance when working on your Mooney. If you know no one, feel free to get in touch with us. Lynn often happily informs, guides, and answers questions of non-Mooney mechanics. (Not responding directly to you, Bob. Just using your words as reference )

 

 

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14 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:


I was thinking it would be nice to put together a list for myself, so if I have a problem, while in the air, I could divert and not have to roll the dice.


Tom

Tom, these guys haven't paid me the "endorsement fee" yet :) and I don't feel comfortable sharing contact info without their permission. An all inclusive list is difficult, as what works for one person may not for another. One of my best friends will not take his Mooney to Maxwell again. Period. Nothing more than a small communication misfire, but that makes Dmax a lousy shop in his opinion. I recommended Don for the task.

Might I suggest if you find yourself AOG someplace strange, post here and on FB. I posted AOG back in 2001 on aviating.com and was immediately called by not one, but 3 Mooney owners willing to assist, recommend, etc.

Since your in Florida, you also have David Taisch to ask of the Florida lunch group. He is a wealth of info as he hears "the stories" of his domicile.

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23 hours ago, VetRepp said:

I'm due for an annual in a few months. I've always used my Local A&P who does a good job and is quite knowledgeable about Mooneys, But I'm considering every few annuals going to a MSC. 

First, any thought s on that  approach ?

Second, Any experiences (Good and BAD) with the MSC's on the west coast? (California/Oregon maybe?) or other recommendations.

(Thanks in advance for all your collective wisdoms)

Roger

What I'd do is find a very well regarded MSC that's agreeable to you and use it for all your annuals. In California you have several to choose from. My favorite is Top Gun based on experience. I'm sure the others are very good. A  proper Mooney annual requires time. Since time is my money I want them to use my time efficiently. That's the key. This is what I pay my MSC to do for me. Any mechanic can swing wrenches but if they don't know the type they will waste your time and of course your money. A Mooney versed MSC will use your time efficiently. Remember the old addage: there's no free lunch. And of course the benefits are that you'll be maintaining your Mooney properly for as long as you enjoy it, and there will be value for the buyer when you sell it. My philosophy is if I were a buyer I would only consider MSC maintained Mooneys and would be willing to pay the extra premium. This is how I bought mine and very happy I did. I'm amused at some owners who are cheap and skimp on proper, by the book maintainance, but want top dollar when they sell! 

Edited by m20kmooney
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If you've got a post '77 airplane, a fistfull of dollars and time to let the airplane sit, then Don's your guy. Ofcourse, he knows everything mooney. Thats was my experience anyway. My contacts with Dugosh were all awesome. SWTA was super helpful with taking my calls for parts and advise thought I've never been there.

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Taking a similar tack for the old J and the O.  For the J did Maxwell for the first annual, then followed with several owner assists at non-msc shops.  For the O, did a couple of owner assists but followed that this year by a visit to Crownair Aviation KMYF where John and Bill took good care of us, and didn't bill hard (note just checked their website which seems to be hosed for the moment).  So far the strategy of sprinkling the occasional msc in to the maintenance schedule has worked out.
v/r, Roger

Unfortunately, Crownair closed a couple a couple months ago. This was the last of many downsizing’s they went through. So we no longer have a MSC in San Diego. But Advanced Aircraft, also at MYF, is a really good shop that does a fair amount of Mooney work.


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Since your in Florida, you also have David Taisch to ask of the Florida lunch group. He is a wealth of info as he hears "the stories" of his domicile.

Yea, but I’m in Florida...it’s when I am in Anytown, USA Im worried about. I forgot that I get free assistance from the Savvy, so I would just call them.


Tom
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I’m a big fan of MSCs and being loyal to a shop that is good to you.  Going to a non MSC and then calling the MSC for advice so you can save money is not cool.  If you are stuck somewhere then that’s a different story. Just my two cents

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1 hour ago, Pete M said:

If you've got a post '77 airplane, a fistfull of dollars and time to let the airplane sit, then Don's your guy. Ofcourse, he knows everything mooney. Thats was my experience anyway. My contacts with Dugosh were all awesome. SWTA was super helpful with taking my calls for parts and advise thought I've never been there.

Taking my '64 M20C to Don was the best thing I ever did. He saved me quite a bit of money and the result was one of the very best examples of the C anywhere in the country.

There are a lot of great shops around the country, and SWTA is my go to shop. But Don Maxwell is still the gold standard for Mooney service. And if you want to know who the other MSC's call when they have questions... it's Don Maxwell.

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I did the pre-buy for my E at Don's.  Obviously Don is uber-knowledgeable, and he surfaced all of the relevant issues quickly and completely.  I was very happy with that experience.

I took it to SWTA for my first annual, and had a great experience working with JD and Laura.  It is currently at SWTA again for my second annual.  I've been super pleased with the level of service the JD and team have provided, and it is clear to me that SWTA is a top-notch shop with high standards and MSC-level Mooney know-how.

I really enjoy the peace of mind that comes with doing annuals (and major Mooney-specific work) at MSCs.  I expect to continue the practice.

 

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Most of the work and hours a new IA will do to your plane if they have not seen it is the AD Research work.   This is a good 8-20 hours of work it's not really creating value for you, but they have to do it prior to putting their name on the line.  A good IA that knows the problem areas to inspect is just as good as an MSC.   I think it is better approach to created focus areas to inspect each year and go through each system thoroughly instead of trying to take the whole plane apart and put it back together.

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