40-0Flight Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Hello everyone. My name is Darby and I have a problem. Oh wait that isn't how intros work in this group? I'm a long time lurker of the mooneyspace.com forum and have recently been going through some major life changes that makes me want to give a little back to the community and push down the path of my own General Aviation adventure. My user name is "40-0 Flight" because that best sums it all up. I just turned 40 this month, have zero flight time, zero money, zero youth left, and only months from zero kids in the house... (Okay not really completely out of youth but man as I crest this hill the back side is looking steep! ) So now the real fun begins! While my current aspirations, and intentions are grand, my first little project is simple. I have built a mildly complex spread sheet with one purpose in mind. To give a real, true, and honest answer to the age old question. How much $$$ will this lovely addiction cost? The technical side of it is completely in my grasp..... The math I can even manage pretty good. What I'm missing is experience. I have casually researched and written things down for years, but want some real world experience to help flush out this little project with a strong dose of reality. Below I have included a live link and a screen shot of the spread sheet. I have 3 questions. 1. What are some other types of expenses you can think of that would fall into one of the 5 defined categories? ( 1 Time Cost, Maintenance Reserve, Annual Costs, Monthly costs, Hrly Costs) 2. What number does YOUR experience suggest you put to any of these items? (To protect the innocent or married, this question is OPTIONAL) 3. Did filling out the sheet with Your numbers give results You expected? I understand many of these numbers vary and there is no perfect answer to most these costs... BUT my goal for this tool is to make it easier for current or potential owner to play with those numbers based on THEIR belief, and see what that calculates out to in the end. I appreciate anyone and everyone's feedback, and look forward to sharing my future plans as well as making this tool open to the public. P.S. I picked MooneySpace.com for this, because this has always seemed to be my favorite location for info.. and my plane of choice would be a M20K 252. Link to Google Docs Spreadsheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 How much $$$ does this lovely addiction cost? Unfortunately, you've asked the one question that we've all sworn never to answer. 6 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Q: How much $$$ does this lovely addiction cost? A: All of it. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amillet Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Make your best guesstimate, then double it 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-0Flight Posted February 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said: Q: How much $$$ does this lovely addiction cost? A: All of it. Not an option, My ex wife already took that amount. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 You really, really, really need to change your approach. This is a game for poets, not accountants! (Sorry @Danb.) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver LFA Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Jennifer, I told you to stay off my airplane forums! I know it’s you, mooneyspacers don’t rat out other mooneyspacers spending habits! (Sorry guys, I think 40-0Flight might be my wife, she’s obviously trying to find out where my daughter college fund is going!) 5 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-0Flight Posted February 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Culver LFA said: Jennifer, I told you to stay off my airplane forums! I know it’s you, mooneyspacers don’t rat out other mooneyspacers spending habits! (Sorry guys, I think 40-0Flight might be my wife, she’s obviously trying to find out where my daughter college fund is going!) On the contrary... My Son starts in August at UND Aviation Science to become an Airline pilot. I'm trying to figure out where his college fund is going to come from! lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraaen Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Nobody will admit it to their WIVES!! You have a good start. Financing was easier then expected. You seem low on some obvious areas. Sales tax/registration, hourly for avionics, IFR certs, annual is low (unless you find someone to help you in your hanger, becoming almost impossible in my area) insurance on a retract for a zero time pilot.. My guess more like $1600-$1700 pr year (and the posts around here are saying everyone is seeing a big bump this year) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-0Flight Posted February 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Eraaen said: Nobody will admit it to their WIVES!! You have a good start. Financing was easier then expected. You seem low on some obvious areas. Sales tax/registration, hourly for avionics, IFR certs, annual is low (unless you find someone to help you in your hanger, becoming almost impossible in my area) insurance on a retract for a zero time pilot.. My guess more like $1600-$1700 pr year (and the posts around here are saying everyone is seeing a big bump this year) Thanks for the info.. Yes, my numbers currently in place are complete rubbish. The person using the spreadsheet can put in what ever they prefer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Spreadsheets and planes do not mix. Info could fall into enemy hands. I’d probably get to keep the plane but sleeping in it with the dog would be tight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-0Flight Posted February 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, MIm20c said: Spreadsheets and planes do not mix. Info could fall into enemy hands. I’d probably get to keep the plane but sleeping in it with the dog would be tight. My intention was to build a tool be used. It seems in the wrong hands I've created a weapon to be feared. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) The airplane cost numbers are too big and confusing for me. Never ask never tell. Edited February 28, 2019 by aviatoreb 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 I put together a spread sheet years ago and ran countless scenarios. I do not know where the spread sheet is it got lost. As for costs they are some what dependent on where you live and what options are available for hangars or tie down. However for hangar, insurance and annual inspection keep in mind you have not started the engine or flown anywhere start at $300 a month and go up from there. Most are probably in the $600 to $800 a month range. Then you can add $400 a month for fuel flying about 10 hours a month. These are the costs you will directly see on a monthly or yearly basis. Routine maintenance issues, unexpected issues and engine overhaul are the unknowns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67 m20F chump Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 I agree that this is the math that must never be done. If you want to fly get your private pilot license. As you gain experience the numbers will start coming into focus. Get your ticket then work out the math. You may not like it. That will save you lots of money! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark21m20c Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 Numbers do not work with our aircraft .Our cost was an arm and a leg (but additional cost keep coming in). She is definitely worth it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 I can’t rent a plane of the speed and quality of my plane, so it doesn’t matter.Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 1) get trained in somebody else’s plane... select a good trainer... 2) buy your first Mooney... An M20C makes a great first Mooney... and a great forever plane, if you get a nice one... 2.5) The C makes a great experiment in aircraft ownership experience. 3) Don’t be in a rush to get a 252... that can be an incredibly powerful weapon in some inexperienced hands... 4) Look forward to stepwise getting to the 252 or other Mooney that you will get to know along the way... 5) how much it costs... as much as you want to spend... 6) don’t tell anyone... there are codes... the financial administrator (FA)... she controls the checkbook... AMUs... are large chunks of change... I always wanted a J... I had 100 hours of experience, and no IR... it took me a decade to get that far... and ended up with an O instead... The M20C got me where I wanted to be... Good things sometimes take time... Disasters can happen in a blink of an eye... Get started! Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 Nope. Just throw money at the problem till it goes away. about 8 AMU to get your Private. I got a call today on the fuel servo..... 2-3 nozzles need to be replaced so .2 - .3 AMU Rebuild of the fuel servo will probably be 1 AMU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 You want to fly not play with spreadsheets. Buy the Sporty's or similar ground school and get busy studying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-0Flight Posted February 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) LOL, this thread is too funny. I have never met a group of so many willfully "Bliss" individuals. I entirely agree, Cost is not the main point of this hobby/passion. I agree, if you love something go for it. But I also accept there are a very few but unavoidable truths in life.. You will pay taxes, you will die, money will not buy you happiness, but the lack thereof is an easy path to misery. In the world of General Aviation, price to play is SOOO massively varing, it is hard to figure out ones entry point. A person could get a $35k 152 shared with a friend up to $189,000 for a late 90s 305 rocket with a dash full of glass. And that is just talking the "Cheap" end of single engine piston. So not as an attempt to discourage oneself with numbers, or fear of reality of true cost and the wrath of the wife. It definitely feel it is an important idea to have a solid grasp financially for what you’re signing up for when you get into a plane. (as a single man buyers remorse is the only wrath that threatens me) So the goal here is to simply build a tool that allows a person to throw a few numbers at a wall and see what works. After all, what fun is a hobby you can’t enjoy because you over spent, and now can’t afford to stay in? Edited February 28, 2019 by 40-0Flight typeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 41 minutes ago, mark21m20c said: Numbers do not work with our aircraft .Our cost was an arm and a leg (but additional cost keep coming in). She is definitely worth it. Couldn’t agree more. There is absolutely NOTHING economical about what we do when we own what we own. You can justify the hell out of it a hundred different ways, but it will never make financial sense. Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Junkin Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 If you're looking for a number to keep you out of trouble, plan on a flat $30K per year total for O&M with about 150 hours of flight time. For one of the younger airplanes you'll exceed that, for one of the classic airplanes you could stay well below it, but that number will ensure you always have enough from year to year, as long as you bank what you don't spend on the good years. The details just get too tedious and the variables are way unpredictable. It's working for me! Cheers, Rick 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 First year ownership of my '70F I spent $18K, all in, for about 100 hours. Could have been better (I had hoped for $12K, i.e. one AMU/month)...but, could have been much worse, too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 If it were y2k... 1) I’d buy an M20C... and pay about 34amu to start the game... 2) My insurance would cost me about 2amu the first year... 3) That would include 10 hours of Transition Training and another 10hours of solo time... 4) my annual probably cost about 2amu or more, that first year... owner participation is a great way to really understand your machine... 5) A few hundred dollars for a cover, because its tied down outside... 6) a few more amu for all the things like headsets and portable devices... 7) that tie down... 1.2 amu for the year... 8) that is pretty much the low end of the fixed costs... 9) That makes flying 100 hours a year look really good to get 101 and 102 hours... the extra hours are pretty low cost compared to the first hours... 10) I did this when my kids were very young... knowing how much the kids were going to cost... it was now or 20 years from now... PP thoughts looking backwards... fill in your own numbers to make sense for your situation... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.