1976 M20F N7049V Facelift, Augmentation , and Tummy Tuck!

[m20kmooney]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

You want to get it to a "modern" status, drop that avionics budget on it and see where you end up. 

You'd have brand new avionics in a newer airframe. No brainer!

[Pete M]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

When you get passed the "thinking about an eagle" and beginning "looking at an eagle" let us know what you find. There are a number of "more modern airplanes" that are no where near "modern". Here is the panel of a $170,000 Ovation. Aside of the GTN, everything in that plane is original. You want to get it to a "modern" status, drop that avionics budget on it and see where you end up. 

Wrong conversation? I agree about a late model j and 252. I'd spend the money there in a heartbeat. You're assumptions about an f always increasing in value...well, it's an assumption. I see f's for sale cheaper now than 15 years ago when i bought my e. The j's however have gone up across the board. E's are up too. C's and g's about the same. How many years would it take? How many generations of new avionics? By then, anything in it would be so old that it wouldnt be marketable without substantial discount. Talking about "miserly, while taking a match to 60k makes no sense at all to me. There's just no way it makes sense. Useful load...160k...bonanza. 

The ovation pictured? What more could you need? Regardless, that airframe will capture more of a 100k upgrade than an f. I'm just sharing thoughts here guys. Don't take it for criticism of anyones choices. Hey, i had 75k in a 64 E that was only worth 55k, so I get it. Just tryin to pass on some lessons learned.  As a side thought, being in the instructor biz,  i had considered putting glass in an old e or j and using it as a glass trainer for instrument and commercial. There's a market for that. But in that case the costs would pay for themselves many times over the lifespan of the airplane. Lots of airline pipeline students here in fl.

With all due humility,:)

Pete

[ArtVandelay]

The ovation pictured? What more could you need?

There’s where you are wrong, it’s not about what you need...it’s about what you want.



Tom

[M20F]

7 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

There’s where you are wrong, it’s not about what you need...it’s about what you want.



Tom

Well said, you can definitely be my latex salesman anytime. 

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, m20kmooney said:

An F will never be worth anywhere near 125K. No matter what you put in it. A pig with lipstick is a pig. 

Do you realize a lot of good people here own M20Fs?  And they've put a lot of money into them?

And you just called them pigs?

Then again, a lot of them have blocked your content- perhaps for good reason.

[carusoam]

Try to be nice to Lucas...

He knows not what he is typing...

It’s like picking on the kid with a typing handicap.

-a-

[Yetti]

On 2/20/2019 at 4:52 AM, jerrodmonaghan said:

I live in Houston, Miami, and Palatka, FL. I bounce between the three for work. Hence the plane theory... I say theory because I have yet to realize going to the hangar and using my plane as intended... but it WILL happen!!! My plane is currently at Eagle Lake, TX. Where it just finished it’s annual, tanks sealed, and new gear pucks. The CFI and I have a series of avionics squawks that are kind of forcing my hand. One King radio isn’t working, Brittian Autopilot won’t hold a heading, VOR’s are only being picked up at 10 miles or less, turn coordinator failed, and the gyro sounds like a box of marbles. Other than that it’s doing great! Lol

Anyone with glass relatively close enough for me to come see your panel in action? I’m willing to drive to Antarctica to see it if it will help my cause!


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Rebuild your turn coordinator.   It is part of the Brittian system.   Mid continent avionics in Tulsa is who Brittian uses they are all buds.  about $400 I think.

Just got back from Pascagoula.   had to take SWA as it is foggy half they year.   So might want to add that to your plans.   While still working on the STC Dynon Skyview might be another option, if you would like to go all integrated.

I bounce between Houston and Brenham where the plane lives.

 

[jerrodmonaghan]

I gotta say I asked for the flat out truth and opinions and I got it! I am going to keep asking for everyone’s 2 cents because In the end the masses will have spoken and the more feedback I get will give me more to work with. Thanks and keep it coming!


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[jerrodmonaghan]

Thanks Yetti I appreciate it.


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[m20kmooney]

29 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Do you realize a lot of good people here own M20Fs?  And they've put a lot of money into them?

And you just called them pigs?

Then again, a lot of them have blocked your content- perhaps for good reason.

Yes I do. It's a proverbial expression. My point was that the value of an airframe is largely determined and capped by its age. Not by how much money the good owner decides to put in it. Very much like the value of a home is capped by its location and not by how much money the owner puts into it. Feel free to block me if you disagree or if it'd make you feel better.

Edited February 21, 2019 by m20kmooney

[Andy95W]

Nah, I've never blocked anybody yet.

And referring to someone's airplane as a pig is about on par with being told you fly a lawnmower with wings.

[m20kmooney]

 

24 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Nah, I've never blocked anybody yet.

And referring to someone's airplane as a pig is about on par with being told you fly a lawnmower with wings.

I never block anyone either. I fly a pig with wings myself. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by m20kmooney

[jerrodmonaghan]

I just hung up the phone with Kirk at Dynon Avionics. Super nice guy I must say. He told me that due to the government shutdown and some other factors he does not anticipate a system being authorized for the Mooney’s until 2020. He speculated that they have 3 airframes ahead of the Mooney’s and that will take them most of 2019 to complete all the necessary requirements. He also mentioned that it was not the FAA’s “fault” if you will. He said the FAA has been willing partners in the endeavor and moving at a remarkably fast pace for the FAA but it just takes time to go through all of the required steps. I asked him what a 100% complete new panel system would cost. He of course couldn’t give me Mooney prices but shared with me the Cessna 172 typical costs. $26k gets you everything they make for the plane at this point. There were a couple items they don’t manufacture at this time so I would have to source an audio panel and other small things. He said installers for the 172 are quoting between 100-200 hrs depending on a host of factors. So estimate $10-$20k for installation. Just thought I would share.


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[Pete M]

4 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

There’s where you are wrong, it’s not about what you need...it’s about what you want.



Tom

So the abandonment of reason is the rule of the day?

[jerrodmonaghan]

I just hung up the phone with Kirk at Dynon Avionics. Super nice guy I must say. He told me that due to the government shutdown and some other factors he does not anticipate a system being authorized for the Mooney’s until 2020. He speculated that they have 3 airframes ahead of the Mooney’s and that will take them most of 2019 to complete all the necessary requirements. He also mentioned that it was not the FAA’s “fault” if you will. He said the FAA has been willing partners in the endeavor and moving at a remarkably fast pace for the FAA but it just takes time to go through all of the required steps. I asked him what a 100% complete new panel system would cost. He of course couldn’t give me Mooney prices but shared with me the Cessna 172 typical costs. $26k gets you everything they make for the plane at this point. There were a couple items they don’t manufacture at this time so I would have to source an audio panel and other small things. He said installers for the 172 are quoting between 100-200 hrs depending on a host of factors. So estimate $10-$20k for installation. Just thought I would share.


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[gsxrpilot]

5 minutes ago, Pete M said:

So the abandonment of reason is the rule of the day?

"Want" is a perfectly good reason. Nothing I do with aviation will ever "pay". It's virtually all money down the drain, but I don't care because it's what I want to do.

It's my time and it's my money and I'll waste it how I like.

[Andy95W]

4 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

"Want" is a perfectly good reason. Nothing I do with aviation will ever "pay". It's virtually all money down the drain, but I don't care because it's what I want to do.

It's my time and it's my money and I'll waste it how I like.

Damn straight, and "value" be damned!

"A man should do what he wants."

- John Wayne in Hondo 

[ArtVandelay]

So the abandonment of reason is the rule of the day?

You don’t need to own an airplane.
If you do you’ve already abandoned reason.

Just because it’s something you wouldn’t do doesn’t make it unreasonable.


Tom

[m20kmooney]

9 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

You don’t need to own an airplane.
If you do you’ve already abandoned reason.

Just because it’s something you wouldn’t do doesn’t make it unreasonable.


Tom

There are some things more reasonable than others.

Edited February 21, 2019 by m20kmooney

[gsxrpilot]

In defense of @Pete M, I think he's trying to say that the reasonable course of action is to get the "most" airplane available for the money. And by the time you've spent all this money on the F, you could have had an Eagle. 

What the rest of us are saying is that a case can be made that the F is the best Mooney based on specific criteria. And therefore worthy of upgrading and restoration. I personally have a hard time making the case that the F is in anyway better than a J. I think most would agree that the J is all F and a little bit more. But even that little bit might not be enough to overcome the difference between an airplane you know, the F, and the hassle and unknowns of selling and buying a J. And since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, none of us have any business telling the OP that his F is unworthy.

A different discussion is when someone comes on here and says how much money they're saving by buying a hangar queen/barn find and will upgrade it. This is usually because the subject can't afford a plane that comes with all the upgrades already done. We rightly say that in the end it is much cheaper to buy the plane that's already kitted out. But this isn't the case here. Jarrod has decided he likes his F, has some money, and by spending it on his F, will like it even more. 

That activity should be applauded. It will raise the value of all of our vintage birds.

[carusoam]

Mixing family and work, often requires using a plane...

Chasing work (a choice) I got further spread from my family...

Having a Mooney brought my family closer together... (kids and grand parents)

After Having a decade of Mooney experience... I went with a Mooney that was more capable of doing the job...

And the training to make it very useable...

And brought customers to see my skills...

One thing lead to another... the Mooney was paying for itself...

 

odd big big picture look at how some people or one person use(s) their plane...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-