aviatoreb Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) Now that’s fast. Now that’s over 200mph of tail wind at about 35000ft. https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/02/19/flight-reaches-mph-furious-jet-stream-packs-record-breaking-speeds/?utm_term=.8e21c769cd75 I am fishing around on my weathermeister to see if it knows a place of massive tailwind at 25000 m20T altitudes west to east. I’m only finding 100mph of tail winds. Try kaoo to kmjx for example. the current vir8 b789 is doing 700mph but yesterday’s flight hit 230mph tail wind and the flight aware speed is literally off the chart. Edited February 20, 2019 by aviatoreb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 Key words... Jetstream, polar vortex, Johnathen Paul, Mooney Sailing... What we learned from JP is... these favorable winds are seasonal, and the season isn’t very long... What we know today... Having decent weather info in the cockpit can really make a difference as the path of the high winds can be narrow and easily mis-interpreted.... messing with the plan... Go MS sailor! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, carusoam said: Key words... Jetstream, polar vortex, Johnathen Paul, Mooney Sailing... What we learned from JP is... these favorable winds are seasonal, and the season isn’t very long... What we know today... Having decent weather info in the cockpit can really make a difference as the path of the high winds can be narrow and easily mis-interpreted.... messing with the plan... Go MS sailor! Best regards, -a- I think these favorable jet streams can be rather local for their highest winds but some good lovin’ winds may well dip down to mooneg turbo altitudes. I think we the mooneyspace brain trust can identify the optimal flight plan from weather reports, pireps and FlightAware Intel, then we should send up one of brethren as a surfing champion to try for some good 200mph tail winds to shoot for a good 400+ mph ground speed. Ok mooneyspacers let’s do it! Team effort here! E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 Start assembling the MS team... It may help to have a weather guy... to best plan for the best winds... @scottd got time for an interesting wind question? Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 I’ve had a 700kt ground speed in the 747 one time. 200kt tailwind 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, jetdriven said: I’ve had a 700kt ground speed in the 747 one time. 200kt tailwind That’s nice... but we want 801mph to be impressed. :-) and yes I’m very good at arithmetic and units conversion... im just kidding. I figured you would have a fantastic tailwind story. Where was that? And how high? how localized are those best jet stream tailwinds? And how low can they go? how do you find them if looking? Just speaking for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 787s we're doing about 650kt ground last week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dennstaedt, PhD Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, carusoam said: Start assembling the MS team... It may help to have a weather guy... to best plan for the best winds... @scottd got time for an interesting wind question? Best regards, -a- What’s your question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 28 minutes ago, scottd said: What’s your question? Erik was discussing a theoretical flight planning session... Flying a Mooney in the lower flight levels and achieving the greatest X-country groundspeeds possible... A good portion of the challenge is predicting the location and the strength of the jetstream winds.... Then to follow the planning, how would he navigate and maneuver to stay in the jet stream the whole way... getting winds aloft at 20k’ while flying.... A typical Sea to shining Sea flight starts near LA and ends near Atlanta.... Got any ideas? Insight on Jetstream tracking, or seasonal strengths? Just a PP thinking out loud... i’m Usually looking at specific locations to avoid strong winds... this is the exact opposite... Thanks in advance and best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dennstaedt, PhD Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 11 hours ago, carusoam said: Erik was discussing a theoretical flight planning session... Flying a Mooney in the lower flight levels and achieving the greatest X-country groundspeeds possible... A good portion of the challenge is predicting the location and the strength of the jetstream winds.... Then to follow the planning, how would he navigate and maneuver to stay in the jet stream the whole way... getting winds aloft at 20k’ while flying.... A typical Sea to shining Sea flight starts near LA and ends near Atlanta.... Got any ideas? Insight on Jetstream tracking, or seasonal strengths? Just a PP thinking out loud... i’m Usually looking at specific locations to avoid strong winds... this is the exact opposite... Thanks in advance and best regards, -a- Theoretically it's very easy. It's an optimization problem to maximize your groundspeed based on the forecast winds aloft. You'd have to limit the altitude by the service ceiling or oxygen requirements. But again, that's easy. Practically, it's not so easy as there are weather barriers that will create a less than optimal route on most days. We're looking at the best wind alternative now in WeatherSpork that will also include weather routing based on forecasts. But that's a ways off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, scottd said: Theoretically it's very easy. It's an optimization problem to maximize your groundspeed based on the forecast winds aloft. You'd have to limit the altitude by the service ceiling or oxygen requirements. But again, that's easy. Practically, it's not so easy as there are weather barriers that will create a less than optimal route on most days. We're looking at the best wind alternative now in WeatherSpork that will also include weather routing based on forecasts. But that's a ways off. But such an optimization requires access to the actual data, or if flawed, the best forecast data. So I see area forecasts for winds aloft, but I do not know - I bet you do - if that includes specifically where to find the jet stream at its strongest. And how strong the jet stream effect is even if not squarely in that jet stream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 As a rough first cut, you could just look at WindyTV.com. Look at various altitudes and color bands that indicate the highest speed. For example, tomorrow at about noon, at FL240 there are winds in excess of 100 knots running from SW Texas, over OKC, STL, CMH and into New York. Unfortunately it looks like there is also weather there. However, you could also look at going from Portland, OR along or just off the coast all the way to San Diego and also get winds in excess of 100 knots. Add that to a 240 TAS and you could get a groundspeed that would occasionally exceed 350 knots. Of if you want to go coast to coast you could go San Diego to New York PHX, ABQ, OKC and then as above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 Jonathan Paul may have some advice / memories about doing this, so that you may not need to repeat his mid-flight cancellation due to weaker-than-forecast winds aloft. Seems on his San Diego to Savannah first attempt that he diverted somewhere over NM to his home in N. Cal. He commented (and I believe him!) that he doesn't think ABQ Approach gets many requests like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Bob - S50 said: As a rough first cut, you could just look at WindyTV.com. Look at various altitudes and color bands that indicate the highest speed. For example, tomorrow at about noon, at FL240 there are winds in excess of 100 knots running from SW Texas, over OKC, STL, CMH and into New York. Unfortunately it looks like there is also weather there. However, you could also look at going from Portland, OR along or just off the coast all the way to San Diego and also get winds in excess of 100 knots. Add that to a 240 TAS and you could get a groundspeed that would occasionally exceed 350 knots. Of if you want to go coast to coast you could go San Diego to New York PHX, ABQ, OKC and then as above. That is an interesting tool I was not aware of. On a perfect day, in the perfect location, I have a feeling that a Mooney turbo up high could go 400+kts of ground speed. The goal would be to find it. My top record ground speed is 327knots. Through no specific planning - just a magic day I was going to Boston. And I only went to 17k to do it, since on that short trip I essentially went up, and very shortly thereafter it was time to descend again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 Erik, Are you a ForeFlight user? The performance Plus version may have some weather overlays/winds aloft data that could be helpful... (so I have been advised.... ) I have WingX... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, carusoam said: Erik, Are you a ForeFlight user? The performance Plus version may have some weather overlays/winds aloft data that could be helpful... (so I have been advised.... ) I have WingX... Best regards, -a- I am a foreflight user - and thanks for pointing me at that - I did find a very useful chart - attached here - so looking at the red winds at 24000 southwest of chicago, I guessed airport start and target of KLBO to KPNT and came up with 142kts of tail wind - but not directly on the tail for this flight plan. See planning charts attached. Still not fast enough...I think there is 200kts of tail wind out there somewhere to be had. Keep looking Mooneyspace brain trust. Edited February 20, 2019 by aviatoreb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 It helps if you are on the west coast already... Check the winds for the day, and then launch. Pick a window to be working from the west coast.... What causes the Jet stream to be so strong this time of year? how long does this season last? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dennstaedt, PhD Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 Here's the RAOB that they used to determine the 201 knot wind (231 mph). It was at 33,000 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, scottd said: Here's the RAOB that they used to determine the 201 knot wind (231 mph). It was at 33,000 feet. That's not good enough Scott! I can't get that high. Are there ever 201kt jet stream winds at 25,000 ft? Serious question. Well semi-serious. Less serious and in a related question: since releasing a single butterfly in South America can cause a tornado in Texas, do you think that you and I could train a flock of butterflies so as that if we release them in a carefully chosen place, and time, to perform carefully designed maneuvers, that we might cause a good jet stream event over my house at 25,000ft to push me to Boston with 201kts for a 401kt tail wind? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: That's not good enough Scott! I can't get that high. Are there ever 201kt jet stream winds at 25,000 ft? Serious question. Well semi-serious. Less serious and in a related question: since releasing a single butterfly in South America can cause a tornado in Texas, do you think that you and I could train a flock of butterflies so as that if we release them in a carefully chosen place, and time, to perform carefully designed maneuvers, that we might cause a good jet stream event over my house at 25,000ft to push me to Boston with 201kts for a 401kt tail wind? Dude, you need to lay off the caffeine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, jaylw314 said: Dude, you need to lay off the caffeine! Well, I do very much worshipping the God's of Expresso every morning, but no, I must admit this is just me, and I usually avoid coffee after morning has past. I did write a book with a beautiful cappuccino on the cover. Its a best seller (well ok not a best seller) that you can find on Amazon. Edited February 21, 2019 by aviatoreb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 Flow analysis of Latte cross currents in a cylindrical pipe? https://www.amazon.com/Erik-M.-Bollt/e/B00I32R0WI%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share I thought it was going to be a chore to find... That was easy! Other MSers books are probably a bit easier to read... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immelman Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 Yesterday at work, east coast to west transcon, the most wind I have ever seen: 205 knots, near the Canadian border west of Montreal. It went on for quite a while. We could not make it back to the west coast without a fuel stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 Immelman, What plane were you flying? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Immelman said: Yesterday at work, east coast to west transcon, the most wind I have ever seen: 205 knots, near the Canadian border west of Montreal. It went on for quite a while. We could not make it back to the west coast without a fuel stop. Hi Immelman, you say "at work" which makes me think you are either a professional pilot, or maybe an air traffic controller? Just west of Montreal? That's pretty darned close to here - darned I missed the chance I was looking for in my quest for 400kts of ground speed. How low altitude did that bit of jet stream go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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