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Owner Assisted Avionics Install


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Ok, just curious, who would be interested in doing their ADS-B, GTN, GFC, G5 or any other Avionics Upgrades as an "Owner Assisted?  I am a HUGE proponent in doing that and will accommodate this if anyone is interested.  Tell me your thoughts, questions and/or concerns.  Now understand, the labor costs would be lower but parts still remain the same.  What say you?

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Ok, just curious, who would be interested in doing their ADS-B, GTN, GFC, G5 or any other Avionics Upgrades as an "Owner Assisted?  I am a HUGE proponent in doing that and will accommodate this if anyone is interested.  Tell me your thoughts, questions and/or concerns.  Now understand, the labor costs would be lower but parts still remain the same.  What say you?


I did some of my earliest avionics upgrades working with a shop. I think you’ll need to draw a line at some point. There are a number of owners where “lefty loosey, righty tighty” is still a foreign concept. If someone can do a portion of the work themselves, it certainly would help defray some of the costs but it still requires a level of supervision. Even with the avionics shops I have worked with today, it’s clear even some of the techs still need to be supervised.


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1 minute ago, Marauder said:

 


I did some of my earliest avionics upgrades working with a shop. I think you’ll need to draw a line at some point. There are a number of owners where “lefty loosey, righty tighty” is still a foreign concept. If someone can do a portion of the work themselves, it certainly would help defray some of the costs but it still requires a level of supervision. Even with the avionics shops I have worked with today, it’s clear even some of the techs still need to be supervised.


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@MarauderWhat?  Are you serious? .......Just kidding!  I know!  Tech these days are just not what they used to be when I grew up in the industry.  I have to supervise virtually every aspect of the projects and still things get missed by them.  I understand that there is a level of supervision that would be needed, but because of the costs these days and the "You can't know what is behind the black curtain" mentality by most places, they are allowed to charge outrageous amounts for their labor.  I just do not agree as most of the time, the mechanics are not exactly the brightest light in the room.  My 13 and 14 year old sons do a heck of a job and usually a LOT better than my "guys" full time.  I am actually going to reduce my work force and have my sons help me and honestly, we get projects done faster working part time, as a team, than working with full timers.  Just rambling here.  LOL

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12 minutes ago, The Avionics Specialists said:

Ok, just curious, who would be interested in doing their ADS-B, GTN, GFC, G5 or any other Avionics Upgrades as an "Owner Assisted?  I am a HUGE proponent in doing that and will accommodate this if anyone is interested.  Tell me your thoughts, questions and/or concerns.  Now understand, the labor costs would be lower but parts still remain the same.  What say you?

Dang it, I wish you had posted this last year.  Had a KT-74 installed for ADS-B, and I wouldn't have minded trying to do this myself.  I'll keep you guys in mind for future projects.

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1 minute ago, jaylw314 said:

Dang it, I wish you had posted this last year.  Had a KT-74 installed for ADS-B, and I wouldn't have minded trying to do this myself.  I'll keep you guys in mind for future projects.

Dang it!  Well, I am sure you know other pilots.  Let them know, then come help them or if they don't want to do it, see if you can do it for them.  Just a thought.  

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45 minutes ago, The Avionics Specialists said:

Ok, just curious, who would be interested in doing their ADS-B, GTN, GFC, G5 or any other Avionics Upgrades as an "Owner Assisted?  I am a HUGE proponent in doing that and will accommodate this if anyone is interested.  Tell me your thoughts, questions and/or concerns.  Now understand, the labor costs would be lower but parts still remain the same.  What say you?

 

I have installed all my avionics, does help I have an IA. but I have also helped a bunch of people who wanted to install their own equipment but needed supervision and paperwork. 

Most of the installation is relatively easy if you can follow directions and read a schematic. of course a little mechanical ability is helpful.

that is a great offer for those in the north west. if you want to support people on the other coast with the parts, I would help supervise the install in the north east.

Brian

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28 minutes ago, orionflt said:

 

 

I have installed all my avionics, does help I have an IA. but I have also helped a bunch of people who wanted to install their own equipment but needed supervision and paperwork. 

Most of the installation is relatively easy if you can follow directions and read a schematic. of course a little mechanical ability is helpful.

that is a great offer for those in the north west. if you want to support people on the other coast with the parts, I would help supervise the install in the north east.

Brian

Maybe we can work something out.  Let me think about it.  

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Personally I would have jumped at the chance to do some more work on my plane while the engine was out(well, it still is, but I think it should be back soon-ish). I did the wiring for the JPI and installed a new backup AI with my A&Ps supervision, but, for instance, I want a GTX-345, which technically I could probably do much of the install, but they won't sell it to my A&P. 

Since I'm in Greg's neck of the woods, I may well be in touch once I figure out when the heck my engine is going to return.

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Just now, Steve W said:

Personally I would have jumped at the chance to do some more work on my plane while the engine was out(well, it still is, but I think it should be back soon-ish). I did the wiring for the JPI and installed a new backup AI with my A&Ps supervision, but, for instance, I want a GTX-345, which technically I could probably do much of the install, but they won't sell it to my A&P. 

Since I'm in Greg's neck of the woods, I may well be in touch once I figure out when the heck my engine is going to return.

Sounds great Steve!  Where are you located here in the PNW?

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Greg,

It is very interesting offer. I would be interested but already have a relationship with my IA and about to start GTX335 install and new RHS panel with some other goodies, hopefully in a week.

I see you are in South OR (I’m at KPAE) and moving my plane down there would require days off work, logging etc. so I’m not sure that would be cost beneficial as is working in my hangar at my schedule. I think I’d rather just pay a pro and make money at work for that…  But, perhaps someone else would still be interested.

Nevertheless, I applaud your idea as allows owners to understand their airplanes better and also make a decision about work needed to be done, spend time removing old wiring shop might not be inclined to do (saw it on my plane) or just make layout more to their needs.

 

Regards,

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6 minutes ago, Igor_U said:

Greg,

It is very interesting offer. I would be interested but already have a relationship with my IA and about to start GTX335 install and new RHS panel with some other goodies, hopefully in a week.

I see you are in South OR (I’m at KPAE) and moving my plane down there would require days off work, logging etc. so I’m not sure that would be cost beneficial as is working in my hangar at my schedule. I think I’d rather just pay a pro and make money at work for that…  But, perhaps someone else would still be interested.

Nevertheless, I applaud your idea as allows owners to understand their airplanes better and also make a decision about work needed to be done, spend time removing old wiring shop might not be inclined to do (saw it on my plane) or just make layout more to their needs.

 

Regards,

@Igor_U Thank you for the kind words!  I am just trying to help out the community.  I usually do not do this as an everyday option, but with this community I am more inclined to do so because we all love our Mooneys. I generally do all of the installation and modifications myself without help as it can be a bit frustrating and time consuming, but for the "mechanically inclined" owner that usually does an Owner Assisted Annual, this is a great opportunity and just want to do my part in helping the community move forward as much as I can.  

If anyone needs an Avionics Shop to go to, they can ALWAYS call on me as I am one and have quite a bit of knowledge in this field.  This is only an option.

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I'm very interested. I'm DIY-inclined and do as much as I can under supervision. I installed my EDM-900, AOA, Davtron M655, 496 power/data cable and new LED glareshield lights so far myself. I hope to choose a PFD and autopilot upgrade path after OSH this year to include a new panel and connection to my 530W/430W stack. The fast stack system is intriguing to me as an enabler for supervised DIY, but working directly with a shop would be even better. I have a lot of tools including the spendy DMC crimpers and dies.

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1 minute ago, KSMooniac said:



I'm very interested. I'm DIY-inclined and do as much as I can under supervision. I installed my EDM-900, AOA, Davtron M655, 496 power/data cable and new LED glareshield lights so far myself. I hope to choose a PFD and autopilot upgrade path after OSH this year to include a new panel and connection to my 530W/430W stack. The fast stack system is intriguing to me as an enabler for supervised DIY, but working directly with a shop would be even better. I have a lot of tools including the spendy DMC crimpers and dies.

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@KSMooniac, that's great!!!!  Keep me in the loop and remember me when that time comes!!!!

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1 hour ago, The Avionics Specialists said:

@MarauderWhat?  Are you serious? .......Just kidding!  I know!  Tech these days are just not what they used to be when I grew up in the industry.  I have to supervise virtually every aspect of the projects and still things get missed by them.  I understand that there is a level of supervision that would be needed, but because of the costs these days and the "You can't know what is behind the black curtain" mentality by most places, they are allowed to charge outrageous amounts for their labor.  I just do not agree as most of the time, the mechanics are not exactly the brightest light in the room.  My 13 and 14 year old sons do a heck of a job and usually a LOT better than my "guys" full time.  I am actually going to reduce my work force and have my sons help me and honestly, we get projects done faster working part time, as a team, than working with full timers.  Just rambling here.  LOL

Uhh...not the most reassuring statement I’ve ever heard from a potential service provider. I think it’s a great idea to offer owners more opportunities to get involved in specific aspects of the install, but if your kids are consistently doing a better job than your techs it may be time to find some new techs before serious damage gets done.

Seems like the analogy would be: “Save some money on your appendectomy! My scrub nurses are horrible, but if you and your family members want to pitch in, you get 25% off.” Maybe work on the wording a little bit?

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1 minute ago, ilovecornfields said:

Uhh...not the most reassuring statement I’ve ever heard from a potential service provider. I think it’s a great idea to offer owners more opportunities to get involved in specific aspects of the install, but if your kids are consistently doing a better job than your techs it may be time to find some new techs before serious damage gets done.

Seems like the analogy would be: “Save some money on your appendectomy! My scrub nurses are horrible, but if you and your family members want to pitch in, you get 25% off.” Maybe work on the wording s little bit?

@ilovecornfields, try not to read into it too much.  I am mainly talking about time frame and attention to detail.  You would be surprised what Maintenance shops go through and there is A LOT untold and not talked about.  I will work on the wording, but also try not to be a grading teacher either, please do not take offense, just try and not start a downing/negative spin on this.  I think the main point of all of this is to get the spirit of what is being said here please.  My kids are phenomenal and have amazing attention to detail.  

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I think the configuring part could get tricky if an A&P wrencher took on a high-speed avionics project. No two A&P are alike. Too me (a/c owner only), the hardest part would be assembling the harness to connect everything together. I think there are firms out there that specialize in pre-made harnesses.

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1 minute ago, tigers2007 said:

I think the configuring part could get tricky if an A&P wrencher took on a high-speed avionics project. No two A&P are alike. Too me (a/c owner only), the hardest part would be assembling the harness to connect everything together. I think there are firms out there that specialize in pre-made harnesses.

@tigers2007, correct and the thing to remember is I am NOT talking about letting and owner loose on a project and I sit in the office and put my feet up.  I am talking training, and should there be things that they (owners) are comfortable with, then let them do it and then I will inspect and supervise.  Further, it is MY responsibility to ensure it all is working correctly and the project is done to s certain standard.  It will maintain that standard throughout. Please everyone, do not misconstrue an "Assisted Install" being "Buying product and let that person go to town". It is exactly as it is stated.  "THE OWNER WILL ASSIST........ONLY" not "PERFORM THE.......". Make sense?  You as an owner will assist me (my shop) on the install.  There is still a timeline to make and still a cost and regulations that WILL be adhered to.  We need not make this harder or more complicated than what it is.  

If anyone wants to go to a premade harness shop, go ahead, some are good, some aren't. 

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1 hour ago, The Avionics Specialists said:

@ilovecornfields, try not to read into it too much.  I am mainly talking about time frame and attention to detail.  You would be surprised what Maintenance shops go through and there is A LOT untold and not talked about.  I will work on the wording, but also try not to be a grading teacher either, please do not take offense, just try and not start a downing/negative spin on this.  I think the main point of all of this is to get the spirit of what is being said here please.  My kids are phenomenal and have amazing attention to detail.  

Not trying to spin this negatively...I think it’s a great offer and if I had to have avionics installed and had the time I would love to participate. My point was that advertising that your children pay more attention to detail than your full time employees makes me a little anxious about having work done there (maybe this is true at most avionics shops, but something that is rarely advertised).

There are some industries where small mistake or lapses in attention get people killed/injured. Aviation is one of them. Medicine is another. I understand good techs are hard to come by, but imagine if someone had an accident after leaving your shop, something was found to be done incorrectly and they found your posts about the inattentiveness of your workers? Maybe it’s a bit paranoid, but hopefully you can see where I’m coming from.

The shop I take my plane to isn’t cheap. They also pay careful attention to detail, fix any issues quickly and have found serious issues other shops have missed.  I will continue going there and choose to save my money on things other than aircraft maintenance.

I’ll refrain from commenting further and wish you great success with your business. I think your offer is unique and truly valuable.

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24 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

I think the configuring part could get tricky if an A&P wrencher took on a high-speed avionics project. No two A&P are alike. Too me (a/c owner only), the hardest part would be assembling the harness to connect everything together. I think there are firms out there that specialize in pre-made harnesses.

FYI,

aircraft spruce is making harnesses now. As a matter of fact my GTX335 came with one built by AC (no charge at the time) and all I did was to modify and add additional wires for my particular install.

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1 minute ago, ilovecornfields said:

Not trying to spin this negatively...I think it’s a great offer and if I had to have avionics installed and had the time I would love to participate. My point was that advertising that your children pay more attention to detail than your full time employees makes me a little anxious about having work done there (maybe this is true at most avionics shops, but something that is rarely advertised).

There are some industries where small mistake or lapses in attention get people killed/injured. Aviation is one of them. Medicine is another. I understand good techs are hard to come by, but imagine if someone had an accident after leaving your shop, something was found to be done incorrectly and they found your posts about the inattentivenrss of your workers? Maybe it’s a bit paranoid, but hopefully you can see where I’m coming from.

The shop I take my plane to isn’t cheap. They also pay careful attention to detail, fix any issues quickly and have found serious issues other shops have missed.  I will continue going there and choose to save my money on things other than aircraft maintenance.

I’ll refrain from commenting further and wish you great success with your business. I think your offer is unique and truly valuable.

No! Don't stop commenting! This is good! I understand where you are coming from, I am agree with everything you are saying! My full timers have been released as my standards are quite high. I truly appreciate your input and knowledge. You input is valuable to me. I just call this industry like I see it. I stand by my work, demand a high quality product and there are no short cuts that are taken. 

I do appreciate your input and please don't stop. That's why we are here.

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4 minutes ago, Igor_U said:

FYI,

aircraft spruce is making harnesses now. As a matter of fact my GTX335 came with one built by AC (no charge at the time) and all I did was to modify and add additional wires for my particular install.

Perfect! Maybe I should just take this offer off of the table. Thoughts? Just trying to help out the community but if everyone has their way figured out, maybe I am just spinning my wheels. I am just offering a way for the owner to help out and lower costs of labor especially as it pertains to the GFC500 and other units but it sounds like they have it figured out already. 

Thoughts everyone?

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Well I wish I was a lot closer to you as I enjoy tedious electronic work. On the other hand, as I approach the middle of my estimated lifespan, I'm starting to find it easier to just "pay it done" and work an easy overtime shift at my employment in lieu of being upside down and jammed into the footwell of a Mooney.

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