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Mooney Emergency Landing with Gear Up at KVNY


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38 minutes ago, bonal said:

Just a thought on this incident. Did not sound like there was an "emergency" until after the gear up. Seemed like the Mooney was approaching with all things being normal and was responding to the tower as expected. Clearly the controller tried to advise him of the gear being up but there was no response and more importantly no attempt to go around. Also there was no immediate reply to towers attempt to contact the Mooney after he was down. Not till a bit later do you here him reply. Pure speculation here but perhaps he had switched his frequency to ground before landing and never heard the warning.

compliments to the controller and also to all the pilots for how well everyone did to stay safe in a busy airspace after things went bad.

It's hard to imagine switching to ground early being a likely mistake, since you KNOW you will have to respond to the tower's expected instructions to turn off the runway and contact ground.  

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Although we don't have a great record on on the gear up's it been pretty consistent over the last several years. So despite brokers saying rates increases are from losses, I think Parker's comments on the firming up the insurance market are far more accurate. But it doesn't help we had another gear incident reported yesterday from the 16th in Miami - an M model. That's 5 now in the past couple weeks.

The sad thing is that our vintage birds aren't getting repaired any more since insurance is totalling them due to our declining market prices.

But hey, its pretty rare to see Mooney pilots botch up landings as bad as this poor Cirrus pilot did and on a 1 yr old "wobbly" Cirrus too!  http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/02/cirrus-sr22-accident-occurred-february.html 

Edited by kortopates
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4 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

It's hard to imagine switching to ground early being a likely mistake, since you KNOW you will have to respond to the tower's expected instructions to turn off the runway and contact ground.  

I completely agree with this point but he was clearly responding to tower on final but failed to go around. Perhaps the warning came too late for him to arrest the descent. Brad is probably right about having to sit a moment to collect his thoughts.

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I figure he heard the gear warning horn blaring, mis-took it for the stall warning horn, and was concentrating so hard on 1.) the noise and 2.) not stalling the airplane that he didn't hear a word the tower said after "cleared to land".  And all that after a very busy arrival, approach, and congested traffic situation.

I've seen this with students who've forgotten the gear.  On about a 1/2 mile final, asking "what's that noise?"  

"Umm, the stall warning?" 

"Let's go around and figure it out."

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I figure he heard the gear warning horn blaring, mis-took it for the stall warning horn, and was concentrating so hard on 1.) the noise and 2.) not stalling the airplane that he didn't hear a word the tower said after "cleared to land".  And all that after a very busy arrival, approach, and congested traffic situation.
I've seen this with students who've forgotten the gear.  On about a 1/2 mile final, asking "what's that noise?"  
"Umm, the stall warning?" 
"Let's go around and figure it out."

And he was wondering why his speeds were off.


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11 hours ago, xcrmckenna said:


And he was wondering why his speeds were off.


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Don’t be lulled into thinking that speed will be a significant indicator...it won’t. Pitch attitude is a bit different at approach speeds with the gear up. It’s perfectly easy to fly a stabilized descent profile at pattern approach speeds with the gear up. If it weren’t, we’d see less of these unfortunate events. 

As to the insurance question, my premium has varied up and down by about 15% over the last 10 years. I can’t say that I’ve seen a trend. I actually think it’s remarkably inexpensive given the risks involved. 

Edited by Shadrach
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3 hours ago, kortopates said:

But hey, its pretty rare to see Mooney pilots botch up landings as bad as this poor Cirrus pilot did and on a 1 yr old "wobbly" Cirrus too!  http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/02/cirrus-sr22-accident-occurred-february.html 

WOW!
That’s the way to turn CASH into TRASH, for sure:o

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3 hours ago, kortopates said:

Although we don't have a great record on on the gear up's it been pretty consistent over the last several years. So despite brokers saying rates increases are from losses, I think Parker's comments on the firming up the insurance market are far more accurate. But it doesn't help we had another gear incident reported yesterday from the 16th in Miami - an M model. That's 5 now in the past couple weeks.

The sad thing is that our vintage birds aren't getting repaired any more since insurance is totalling them due to our declining market prices.

But hey, its pretty rare to see Mooney pilots botch up landings as bad as this poor Cirrus pilot did and on a 1 yr old "wobbly" Cirrus too!  http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/02/cirrus-sr22-accident-occurred-february.html 

That thing looks like it snapped like a twig! 

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43 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

That thing looks like it snapped like a twig! 

Looks to me like it held up quite well. Airplanes are not designed for cartwheels. The pax compartment exhibits no signs of deformation. Dude could have opened the baggage compartment and grabbed his luggage..had it not been strewn about the interior.

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1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

Don’t be lulled into thinking that speed will be a significant indicator...it won’t. Pitch is a bit different at approach speeds with the gear up. It’s perfectly easy to fly a stabilized descent profile at pattern approach speeds with the gear up. If it weren’t, we’d see less of these unfortunate events. 

As to the insurance question, my premium has varied up and down by about 15% over the last 10 years. I can’t say that I’ve seen a trend. I actually think it’s remarkably inexpensive given the risks involved. 

On my first GPS approach into KECP in actual, on that long curved approach over the Bay, I forgot the gear. Couldn't understand why I was consistently high, although I could recapture the glideslope if I didn't mind being rather fast. I hadn't been flying much in the few preceding months. After I broke out around 1100 msl and all the PAPI lights were white, I finally noticed the gear was still up. But I was still too high and had to go around in order to get down. Now I know the signs firsthand.  :P

If holding glideslope makes the speed go high, and holding speed makes the altitude go high, it's because the wheels are still high. 

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Don’t be lulled into thinking that speed will be a significant indicator...it won’t. Pitch is a bit different at approach speeds with the gear up. It’s perfectly easy to fly a stabilized descent profile at pattern approach speeds with the gear up. If it weren’t, we’d see less of these unfortunate events. 
As to the insurance question, my premium has varied up and down by about 15% over the last 10 years. I can’t say that I’ve seen a trend. I actually think it’s remarkably inexpensive given the risks involved. 

That’s true, but when my plane is at 82 mph it starts acting really different gear up vs gear down. That’s when you’re getting pretty close to the ground and focusing on your landing point and a lot of other things. I see that’s how it can be easy to divide your attention to not notice what the plane is telling you.


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Bummer! That is a big busy airport to hold up traffic on. Plenty of spectators and unhappy pilots to make sure the ego is bruised. Hopefully it was 34R.


Right now KVNY down to one runway, so this shut down the busiest GA airport in the country. I know of two corporate jets that had to divert, and I’m sure there were a bunch!
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The Controller behaved as professional as I've ever heard.


I fly out of KVNY a lot. They are real pros, as good as or better than any you’ll find anywhere. And they’re also great to work with, very pleasant. I’ve been to plenty much less busy places where controllers have had far less patience and grace.
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Just renewed my insurance. Sizable increase, insurance agent said Mooney insurance rates have been going up. 


I got that line too and shopped harder, next quote received was lower than last year’s premium.
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6 hours ago, N9201A said:

 


I got that line too and shopped harder, next quote received was lower than last year’s premium.

 

Do that while you can! Ours might have dropped this year too if we could have shopped but one of the three named pilots turned 80 before renewal. Without him on the policy, the rate decrease was significant. Finding a new company to underwrite him proved to be a challenge. I don’t expect he’ll be flying single pilot next year. He’d rather spend his available time with his grand children then worry about staying current.

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17 hours ago, bonal said:

Just a thought on this incident. Did not sound like there was an "emergency" until after the gear up. Seemed like the Mooney was approaching with all things being normal and was responding to the tower as expected. Clearly the controller tried to advise him of the gear being up but there was no response and more importantly no attempt to go around. Also there was no immediate reply to towers attempt to contact the Mooney after he was down. Not till a bit later do you here him reply. Pure speculation here but perhaps he had switched his frequency to ground before landing and never heard the warning.

compliments to the controller and also to all the pilots for how well everyone did to stay safe in a busy airspace after things went bad.

Yeah - from a quick registration and airman search seemed like it may have been a student pilot...will have to wait for NTSB report, but I imagine he was task saturated and wasn't focused enough to hear "go around" (or remember gear for that matter - but heck maybe he didn't see green on the floorboard and was troubleshooting for all we know!)

17 hours ago, bradp said:

You know this guy probably had to have relieved himself of his expletives before responding To tower.  

Hearing myself after I spilled my coffee the other day, I can only imagine how much of a rant I'd be on if that happened to me....they'd probably have to close the adjacent runways as well.

12 hours ago, Andy95W said:

I figure he heard the gear warning horn blaring, mis-took it for the stall warning horn, and was concentrating so hard on 1.) the noise and 2.) not stalling the airplane that he didn't hear a word the tower said after "cleared to land".  And all that after a very busy arrival, approach, and congested traffic situation.

I've seen this with students who've forgotten the gear.  On about a 1/2 mile final, asking "what's that noise?"  

"Umm, the stall warning?" 

"Let's go around and figure it out."

Reminds me of this video...  I can't even play it normal volume because all you hear is the gear warning alarm but the dude forces it down on the runway anyway.  Good "do not do this!" must see video!!!!

 

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On 2/21/2019 at 11:03 PM, xcrmckenna said:


That’s true, but when my plane is at 82 mph it starts acting really different gear up vs gear down. That’s when you’re getting pretty close to the ground and focusing on your landing point and a lot of other things. I see that’s how it can be easy to divide your attention to not notice what the plane is telling you.


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That’s the opposite of my experience. The effect of drag from the gear becomes less noticeable at slower speeds.  I probably fly slower than most on base and final. The one time I missed and came close to a sad story was when doing a short approach to a T&G. I was well below 100 mph abeam the numbers (normally where I lower the gear). At the moment that I was just getting ready to reach for the JBar,  Tower reported “turbine traffic“ turning downwind behind me. I responded “no contact” and immediately turned base to shorten up the approach even more than I had originally planned. I may have forward slipped during base to lose altitude (I don’t recall it’s been many years since the incident). I rolled out on final on speed and on gide Sloan and then added the rest of my flaps and retrimmed for pitch.  Something felt a little weird (likely that the sight picture was atypical) I was just about to start my final GUMPS check when when I realized “the f*%#ing gear horn is blaring“.  My short approach became a low approach;  I had no desire to try and salvage the landing. In reality the tower’s turbine call was needless. I don’t have a rearview mirror and the “turbine traffic” turned out to be a VFR Piper PA-46 that was just entering the downwind. Nevertheless, the mistake was mine. That’s the only time I've ever come close to screwing that particular pooch. It was eye-opening as to how it can happen.  I consider myself lucky to have seen how I could be distracted without having taken it far enough to hear metal scraping. Prior to that incident I really didn't think it could happen to me. That’s a foolish position for anyone to take. All it requires is a sprinkling of distractions and/or non-standard procedures at the ideal moment.

Edited by Shadrach
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shit - now that's twice I've typo'd down vs up.  Maybe I need to go for a checkride and make sure my head is screwed on right!


At least you didn’t hear “hey, gear up” when what your captain actually said was “hey, cheer up!”
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