ragedracer1977

Got into ice today

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36 minutes ago, bradp said:

More ice today in NC.  A part 135 flight carrying a patient of mine had to land short of Raleigh.  

About two hours ago there was a pireip W of FAY/POB for a C182 encountering light rime at 3000 although all the reporting stations in the area were ceilings mostly 5500-8000.  First I was like is that real?  And then I notice there’s another temp inversion with widespread precipitation.   Yup it was real.  Now there’s a big blob of ice pellets / sleet / fzra in the RDU area.  

 

8B2F2395-BF85-42FF-9513-36789BF5A1C0.png

BF6E48B4-E315-4F1A-99FD-1C4DD9973231.png

23C0E20E-7D90-4AD7-83A1-ADDF7D8CA4BA.png

I'd like to learn more about that, what I assume is, skew-t graph. How do you get it? How do you read it?

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5 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I'd like to learn more about that, what I assume is, skew-t graph. How do you get it? How do you read it?

You can get skew-t on Windy

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The program is skew-t log pro.  I am no pro at reading them but they are essentially thermodynamic atmospheric charts.  

Scott’s online program is one of the better resources.  There are more on YouTube and a few good old fashioned text references. They can tell you a whole lot about what’s either observed or predicted to be going on with the atmosphere. It really complements the ogimet style meterograms.  I’d start by just trying to learn what the graph paper is telling you, then the tracings.  In the one above you can see where the temperature and dew point converge you can expect clouds.  You can see that the atmosphere warms above a standard lapse rate before it cools again (inversion).  @scottd could probably tell you something besides my 5th grade reading level understanding of what the winds mean in terms of the observed weather.  In the summer the skew-t can tell you a lot about probability of thunderstorm formation (ie how much energy and how stable the atmosphere is)

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On 2/18/2019 at 12:14 PM, Skates97 said:

20 knot winds down the runway, or close to runway heading are great, it just seems like it takes forever to get to the runway on final.

Image result for wyoming wind sock

I’ve seen that. Is or Rawlings or Larime? 

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1 hour ago, bradp said:

More ice today in NC.  A part 135 flight carrying a patient of mine had to land short of Raleigh.  

About two hours ago there was a pireip W of FAY/POB for a C182 encountering light rime at 3000 although all the reporting stations in the area were ceilings mostly 5500-8000.  First I was like is that real?  And then I notice there’s another temp inversion with widespread precipitation.   Yup it was real.  Now there’s a big blob of ice pellets / sleet / fzra in the RDU area.  

 

8B2F2395-BF85-42FF-9513-36789BF5A1C0.png

BF6E48B4-E315-4F1A-99FD-1C4DD9973231.png

23C0E20E-7D90-4AD7-83A1-ADDF7D8CA4BA.png

"Ice pellets"? Not hail or sleet, but ice pellets? What's the deal with that?

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25 minutes ago, Hank said:

"Ice pellets"? Not hail or sleet, but ice pellets? What's the deal with that?

Sleet is the colloquial term. Ice pellets are produced through a different process than hail. Ice pellets are a great indicator of SLD aloft as I will be explaining at my live webinar in March. 

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I appreciate that @ragedracer1977 told us what happened, what he learned from it and perhaps what we can learn from it. If we jump all over him and slam his decision making, we are stifling these types of posts.

My favorite column in Flying magazine was “I Learned About Flying From That”. There were a series of mistakes made but everyone one of them was alive to tell the story so they must have done something right. I wonder over the years how many lives were saved by that column as we all got to peer into their minds and hopefully see flaws that we could avoid. Rather than slamming the OP, I think we should start a section called “I Learned About Flying From That” and no negative comments allowed for those willing to share their experiences with us.

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I posted about an icing encounter last summer. I got raked over the coals for it as well. But you waste as much time as I do on this forum and you learn who to listen to and who to ignore. I also appreciate that some members make useful comments on some topics and are just looney on other topics. That's fine with me, I just assume they were born that way and can't help it. I tend to appreciate advice and info on maintenance, upgrades, how to use certain avionics, places to go, etc. I'm not a fan of armchair CFI's telling me how or how not to fly when they're not in the plane with me..

It can be assumed that my interest or appreciation of someone else opinion or instruction on my flying is directly proportional to what I'm paying for that opinion or instruction.

On the other hand, I very much appreciate these types of first hand accounts. There is plenty for me to learn from these. The critical commentary, not so much.

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On 2/18/2019 at 5:27 AM, Jim Peace said:

You need to understand that the lack of reports of ice does not mean that is not a crap load out there.  Many Jets (most) do not even have anti ice capability on the tails because we just do not pick up ice that easily with the speeds we fly and the aerodynamics of the plane.  And even if I did pick up ice and then removed it I am not necessarily going to make that report to ATC.  The reports that would be meaningful would have come from other single engine airplanes in the soup.  But you would hardly hear any up there being that they knew that a OAT of 0c and visible moisture has potential to kill them.

Your report would be very meaningful to us single engine airplanes in the soup for the reason you just gave. If you see any signs of ice we fore sure would see ice! Next time report it and this may be the deciding factor to the next single engine pilot. I actually get very frustrated with the lack of PIREPS and makes me doubt the accuracy of forecasted weather. 

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5 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

Your report would be very meaningful to us single engine airplanes in the soup for the reason you just gave. If you see any signs of ice we fore sure would see ice! Next time report it and this may be the deciding factor to the next single engine pilot. I actually get very frustrated with the lack of PIREPS and makes me doubt the accuracy of forecasted weather. 

I agree! But he won't report ice, because our lawnmowers don't belong in the clouds . . . .

If I had a dollar for every time FSS told me "there are no PIREPs along your route"!

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I flew from Tuscaloosa to Cincinnati yesterday. I think that it was the Memphis or Indy center controller specifically ask three planes up in the flight levels about icing. She received three responses Rime ice reports that she then included in her hourly hiwas announcement.

I wondered if she was a pilot as well as a controller.

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7 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

Your report would be very meaningful to us single engine airplanes in the soup for the reason you just gave. If you see any signs of ice we fore sure would see ice! Next time report it and this may be the deciding factor to the next single engine pilot. I actually get very frustrated with the lack of PIREPS and makes me doubt the accuracy of forecasted weather.

 

2 hours ago, Hank said:

I agree! But he won't report ice, because our lawnmowers don't belong in the clouds . . . .

If I had a dollar for every time FSS told me "there are no PIREPs along your route"! 

I agree as well and I'm glad others don't share his opinion on reporting.  Pilot's on the East Coast driving everything report everything which gives a great picture of what's going on up there.  This is just from Charlotte yesterday, but I see it all the time when I pick up my reports for the D.C. and Richmond areas.  I had a very senior, crusty old (and I mean that affectionately ;)) CFII/MEI tell me a long time ago that forecast icing is just that - a forecast.  It changes to known icing when someone actually picks it up and reports it.  It changes that fast and even within a few miles left or right of your course.  If this had been a weekend, you'd see more singles reporting. 

 

1028178607_ScreenShot2019-02-19at9_33_26PM.thumb.png.d9595d2b7a69aad0348b8afb1fdc27f8.png

 

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13 hours ago, bradp said:

More ice today in NC.  A part 135 flight carrying a patient of mine had to land short of Raleigh.  

About two hours ago there was a pireip W of FAY/POB for a C182 encountering light rime at 3000 although all the reporting stations in the area were ceilings mostly 5500-8000.  First I was like is that real?  And then I notice there’s another temp inversion with widespread precipitation.   Yup it was real.  Now there’s a big blob of ice pellets / sleet / fzra in the RDU area.  

 

8B2F2395-BF85-42FF-9513-36789BF5A1C0.png

BF6E48B4-E315-4F1A-99FD-1C4DD9973231.png

23C0E20E-7D90-4AD7-83A1-ADDF7D8CA4BA.png

I came through the east side of this area about nine hours earlier to this. I was fortunate I could pick my time to fly. Day prior was not doable for snow up in New England and today that weather has moved across and making it pretty sketchy for light aircraft. Flight plan was from RUT-GWW-PGD.

Gwwpgdfeb18b.jpeg

rutgwwfeb18a.jpeg

Edited by Vno
Added clarification

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On 2/18/2019 at 4:46 PM, Marauder said:

Maybe you guys can help me. After 28 years of ownership, I am thinking about dropping some serious change on a new paint job. Just not sure what scheme to use? I was thinking maybe a John Deere green, but Cub Cadet yellow has always been a favorite. Not sure I am happy staying with the Toro red. Any thoughts?

flyinglawnmower.jpg.0c534beb485bfde3638e96ca8103e6e3.jpg

 

I can only assume the heavenly sweeties are nearby, when will the new panel be installed, it looks like it needs a new door seal..next time u need company sneaking out to GED let me know.

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Paul if we didn’t deal in robust discussions re our issues we’d loose a valuable learning tool. I just ignore the assholes, instead of getting caught up in a bickering contest. You and many others offer insight in many issues. BTW what else are we to do with our leisure time.

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I’m getting the feeling a few people iron their boxers shorts around here.  I have a confession to make! One time I was flying IMC I was below the icing level and I wanted to experience a little ice. I requested higher and picked up ice then I requested lower and it disappeared. BTW, no PIREP until I gave one. Call me foolish and call out the linch mob! I now know ice belongs in my drinks and not on my wings, cheers!!

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After reading this whole thread it dawns upon me that it would be interesting to see this very same subject matter discussed by the same group except in a room face to face  vs. online. Guaranteed it would be a whole different animal. 

Edited by Bravoman
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On 2/18/2019 at 2:39 AM, ragedracer1977 said:

What would keep everyone else from picking up ice?

Here's why a jet will see a lot less ice than a piston single... particularly a larger transport: The size of the airfoil, their anti-ice capabilities, and their speed which causes the air temperature the airframe "feels" to be warmer (TAT vs SAT).

Ice is no fun in our airplanes. Stay out of it. Trust me on this, fool around enough and there will be a day when it feels like someone turned on a fire hose of cold water at your airplane, and it can happen very quickly.

Edited by Immelman

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On 2/19/2019 at 11:39 AM, Cyril Gibb said:

Now that I’ve had time to review the TAF, terrain and route of the OPs flight, I would have made the same decision to go.  Warm VFR conditions not far below and ample terrain clearance is the obvious out.

The issues started just after TOD.  From TOD inbound to destination the terrain is quite high, some nice rocks near 7000 feet msl.  Where is the ample terrain clearance that can be had from a forecast?

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16 minutes ago, Immelman said:

Here's why a jet will see a lot less ice than a piston single... particularly a larger transport: The size of the airfoil, their anti-ice capabilities, and their speed which causes the air temperature the airframe "feels" to be warmer (TAT vs SAT).

Ice is no fun in our airplanes. Stay out of it. Trust me on this, fool around enough and there will be a day when it feels like someone turned on a fire hose of cold water at your airplane, and it can happen very quickly.

good points.

Also to the previous posters I would probably give a pirep more often on ice if I could see it.  I can't see my wings from the cockpit.  I can see a small piece of a windscreen wiper that may or may not have ice if my wings do.  I cant tell what type either.  All I will see is shmutz. It could be heavy or just trace. What do I report?  I do have an EICAS warning of  ICE DET but who knows if its true or not.  We usually only put engine heat on if  we see that one.  I don't think I have used Wing heat in years and it does not work if the leading edge devices are out. 

As for that previous chart earlier on this page, most of those planes can see at least a small portion of their wings to give out an accurate report.  

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This lawnmower with wings stuff got me thinking since I have one. Say I decide one day to use my lawnmower with wings to cut down some brush around the airport. Does it mean my lawnmower will need a teardown inspection before further mowing?:wacko:

Edited by m20kmooney

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3 hours ago, m20kmooney said:

This lawnmower with wings stuff got me thinking since I have one. Say I decide one day to use my lawnmower with wings to cut down some brush around the airport. Does it mean my lawnmower will need a teardown inspection before further mowing?:wacko:

One should use the no-wing mower for such heavy work!

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