ArtVandelay Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Better than capacitance. They can put out frequency or volts (for resistance gauges). Frequency is supposed to be more accurate and consistent. And they are not like OEM's. OEM's use a wiper arrangement that relies on a clean surface and consistent contact pressure. Wear and corrosion make the old style inaccurate as the age. The Cies floats are contactless so they do not degrade with time. You should never need to replace or overhaul them. But the capacitance has no moving parts? I have to think a moving float is more likely to fail.Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Bird dropping. I replaced all the "glass" a couple of years ago. The resulting paint issues around the windows was a big factor in getting the plane painted. Pro tip when marketing, don’t take pictures when subject is covered in bird droppings! Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 12:49 PM, ArtVandelay said: But the capacitance has no moving parts? I have to think a moving float is more likely to fail. Tom The arm moves but not the ohm measuring component as it does on the conventional, resistive senders. CiES is OEM on new Mooneys, Cirrus, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said: Pro tip when marketing, don’t take pictures when subject is covered in bird droppings! Tom Well, I'm not marketing anything but point well taken. It amazes me what I miss in the real world that shows up in a photo! It's like typos that don't appear until I hit send/post. I made a trip to the airport this morning after posting a pic of the tail (see above) that looks like a big dent at the top! The pic lied in this case so I took the pics of the details while I was there. I also washed bird poop off the left side and missed that bigger streak on the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6018Q Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said: Try to get to inspect work done by a prospective painter and pay attention to details: Hawk replaces all hardware with ss. Includes camloc style fasteners on cowl and battery door and nylon cup washers. Joe also r&rs riveted data plate to paint underneath it. What is the reason for the small hinged door on the battery panel? BatteryMinder? Is that original to the plane? If not who can put that on mine? Right now I have to fish the pigtail for my battery minder out of the step opening after every flight. It seems a little door like that would be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 That looks like a plug for external power. Usually it bypasses the main battery so you can’t use it to charge the battery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 That looks like a plug for external power. Usually it bypasses the main battery so you can’t use it to charge the battery Actually you can, the trick is to energize the relay with a battery (i use a starter battery) then hook up the battery charger. Most chargers won’t work if they don’t sense the battery. At least this is how it works on my J. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 But the capacitance has no moving parts? I have to think a moving float is more likely to fail.Tom I’ve had the CiES in my plane for a year and a half after having mechanical resistive for 26.5 years. Probably like many owners, the factory gauges were not consistently accurate. I never trusted them. The CiES are unbelievably accurate through the entire range. The only thing you can’t tell see on the JPI is the decimal value accuracy. I downloaded the JPI raw data and found that even though the gauge said 18 gallons remaining, it might actually be 18.2 or 18.3. Far cry from the analog needle. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, N6018Q said: What is the reason for the small hinged door on the battery panel? BatteryMinder? Is that original to the plane? If not who can put that on mine? Right now I have to fish the pigtail for my battery minder out of the step opening after every flight. It seems a little door like that would be perfect. That's a external power supply. An option on some models, standard later on. I bought a used one from Jerry Pressley that included a battery cover with the solenoid, I think he threw in a spare little cover with a working spring to keep it closed. Or... Mooney sells a kit with everything you need to add the option with new parts. Hold on to your hat when you get the price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, jetdriven said: That looks like a plug for external power. Usually it bypasses the main battery so you can’t use it to charge the battery In my case I can charge the battery. Also works when you want to fiddle with the avionics for an extended time without drawing down the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said: Actually you can, the trick is to energize the relay with a battery (i use a starter battery) then hook up the battery charger. Most chargers won’t work if they don’t sense the battery. At least this is how it works on my J. Tom Yeah, I have 2 chargers in the hangar. The dumb one works fine, the smart one doesn't see the battery until the relay is closed and won't turn on until it sees a battery and the relay doesn't close until it gets 12V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Marauder said: I’ve had the CiES in my plane for a year and a half after having mechanical resistive for 26.5 years. Probably like many owners, the factory gauges were not consistently accurate. I never trusted them. The CiES are unbelievably accurate through the entire range. The only thing you can’t tell see on the JPI is the decimal value accuracy. I downloaded the JPI raw data and found that even though the gauge said 18 gallons remaining, it might actually be 18.2 or 18.3. Far cry from the analog needle. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro The 930 shows the fuel levels beside the "Estimated Remaining" fuel which is independent, based on the fuel flow accumulator. If the two values are mismatched an alert appears. This probably is due to pitch angle in climb or in my case due to the lack of an outboard sensor for near full tank precision. It might also reflect that the lineman didn't fill the tanks to the 64 gallon level in which case the CiES might be more accurate than the fuel flow info. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said: But the capacitance has no moving parts? I have to think a moving float is more likely to fail. Tom That may be true but with the Cies floats there is essentially no friction and the only moving part is the float arm. See this: Fuel Level Measuring Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: I picked up my '66E from Hawk in Tampa in June. ~$12,500 for high quality job, complete strip, remove all control surfaces and access panels, repairs, primer, base white and 4 metallic trim colors, all Imron. (I had several other, higher quotes but Hawk has painted several MS planes.) Bobby it just keeps looking better and better, Sweet ass E. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: Try to get to inspect work done by a prospective painter and pay attention to details: Hawk replaces all hardware with ss. Includes camloc style fasteners on cowl and battery door and nylon cup washers. Joe also r&rs riveted data plate to paint underneath it. Camlocs on the cowl, southco's on the battery access panel. Looks like a bird gave your paint job his seal of approval in the last photo also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 CiES are the best fuel senders available for our airplanes, period, end of discussion. I've had mine about 400 hours now. It's amazing what these airplanes can do when you absolutely know how much fuel you have and where it is at all times. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 17 hours ago, Supercop0184 said: Looks like we’re going in for paint in October - Jeff with American Plane Painting Company has been FANTASTIC so far in answering questions and always making himself available for a phone call. I saw a Cherokee he painted in a Miami hurricane scheme (I tried not to judge planes paint job by its school colors). The paint looked amazing as did the line work. He’s at Craig field in Selma Alabama - can’t wait to get this part of my refurb done. So now here’s what we have - Don Maxwell annual in May - Weep no more for both tank reseals and fuel sender overhauls in july Strip and Paint in October. Busy (and expensive) year! But it’s all Stuff that really adds to the airplane. seriously - Jeff at American plane painting is worth a look at it you need a paint job. Let me know when you come to Selma, it's not far. Compared to Texas, I'm already there . . . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) dp--you think I'd have this figured out by now! Edited February 16, 2019 by Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supercop0184 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: CiES are the best fuel senders available for our airplanes, period, end of discussion. I've had mine about 400 hours now. It's amazing what these airplanes can do when you absolutely know how much fuel you have and where it is at all times. I only have an EDM-700 - would they still benefit me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 700s are really good... But, if they don’t have fuel level it would easily make sense to bump up to a more capable 20 year newer JPI... JPIs get a bit expensive when they are certified as primary... 900, this takes more commitment.... For the CB solution Cies recommends some other lower cost stand-alone meters to display the data... If you are committed to a forever-plane... cies and a primary capable engine monitor makes sense to have... PP thoughts, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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