Aspen with GFC 500?

[thomas1142]

I have been without an auto pilot for about 8 months, KFC 150 bit the dust, and decided to wait for the GFC 500 to install along with 2 G5’s. I thought that would be the best solution for me. The plot thickens.

Mean time I have been reading about the Aspen 1500, and now I think that might be a good solution to getting rid of the legacy six pack, since I will also be installing a EDM 900.

Now for the question, I know I will still need a G5 to run the GFC 500, but how will that work with the Aspen. Will I be flying the auto pilot with the G5, and flying the airplane with the Aspen? How will I be tracking the course from the GNS 530W with the Aspen, and getting the info to the auto pilot.

If the Aspen and the Garmin AP are not the right solution, what is?

Decision paralysis, to much info, not enough knowledge.

Im sure I’ll get to the right solution with all of you helping out.

Thanks 

 

[M016576]

Unless you have an EA100 autopilot adapter installed along with your Aspen- your previous autopilot was actually being “flown” by your KI-256.  Basically- the “HSI/DG/course” inputs will come from the Aspen, and the roll/pitch inputs will come from the G5.  Shouldn’t be a problem so long as the unit is certified for it.

Edited February 15, 2019 by M016576

[Bob_Belville]

Aspens tend to work with any Nav source and any autopilot. GPSS is built in. 

I have a GTN 750 (and a b.u. KX 155) feeding a Aspen 1000 Pro which feeds a heading to the STEC 50.

But the GFC 500 may be an exception. 

[Steve W]

Beechtalk had this as far as the bugs go:

>> Will the Pro MAX PFD be able to crossfill settings (such as speed/heading/altitude bugs and altimeter setting) to other EFIS such as Garmin G5 ? 

> There will be no "pass through" interface capabilities. 

So if you just treat the G5 as a standalone install then it would probably work, but it looks like it would be annoying to operate.

[ArtVandelay]

The 1500 is about $16,000.

I think it would be cheaper and better to go 7” TXi and a G5 as backup. That would be around $13,000 not including the GFC.

 

Tom

 

[thomas1142]

10 minutes ago, Steve W said:

Beechtalk had this as far as the bugs go:

>> Will the Pro MAX PFD be able to crossfill settings (such as speed/heading/altitude bugs and altimeter setting) to other EFIS such as Garmin G5 ? 

> There will be no "pass through" interface capabilities. 

So if you just treat the G5 as a standalone install then it would probably work, but it looks like it would be annoying to operate.

This is what I’m afraid of. I would have to be “flying” two systems; Aspen and G5.

[thomas1142]

11 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

The 1500 is about $16,000.

I think it would be cheaper and better to go 7” TXi and a G5 as backup. That would be around $13,000 not including the GFC.

 

Tom

 

Does the TXi allow for removal of the standard six pack? Answered my own question....as long as I install two 7” TXi, I can remove the six pack.

[Bryan]

Also, a TXi + a G5

[Niko182]

Practically theses are your options as of now.

Option 1
10 inch or 7 inch TXI, with a G5 as a buckup, running the GFC500, with 430, 530, 650,
or 750 required, while the TXI is running the EIS if you have the 10 inch. If you have
the 7 inch, use a JPI 900.
 

Option 2
Aspen 1500 MAX, with no backup required, running an Stec3100.
You get the choice of running Avidyne 440, 540, 550, or a GTN in this case.
in option 1 realistically, you need to run everything Garmin. and for an engine
monitor, JPI 900, or 930 since youll have the room if only 2 aspens are going to be taking
up room.

My opinion, avoid getting a 7 inch TXI. The price difference is minimal between the 7 and the 10,
and the 10 inch allows you to run an EIS system, and it will create a cleaner panel overall. Id run
practically recreate what RMAG created as his panel, except has the GFC500 instead of the KFC150.

[ArtVandelay]

My opinion, avoid getting a 7 inch TXI. The price difference is minimal between the 7 and the 10,

and the 10 inch allows you to run an EIS system, and it will create a cleaner panel overall.

Minimal!?

It’s additional $4,000 for the extra 3” plus $5,000 for the optional EIS.

$9000 is not minimal in my book.

And if installing the 900 and G5, you may not have the room anyway.

 

Tom

[Bryan]

MAX is not out until July

[Niko182]

Just now, ArtVandelay said:

Minimal!?
It’s additional $4,000 for the extra 3” plus $5,000 for the optional EIS.
$9000 is not minimal in my book.


Tom

5000 for an EIS or 4500 for a jpi 900.

And its 3K install difference between the 7 and the 10 inch display. You forgot that he still needs to buy a jpi900. If youre spending 45K on a gfc500, EIS, g5, g500TXI, and install, i think 3.5K to have a screen double the size is worth it. The JPI 900 isnt free. You still need to pay for that if you dont have the EIS. And the install includes quite a large protion of the price.

[thomas1142]

30 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

5000 for an EIS or 4500 for a jpi 900.

And its 3K install difference between the 7 and the 10 inch display. You forgot that he still needs to buy a jpi900. If youre spending 45K on a gfc500, EIS, g5, g500TXI, and install, i think 3.5K to have a screen double the size is worth it. The JPI 900 isnt free. You still need to pay for that if you dont have the EIS. And the install includes quite a large protion of the price.

Side note, I picked up a JPI for $3500

[MIm20c]

I find myself drawn to these threads. Spending other people’s money, integrating technology, and maximizing capabilities just pulls me in.  

I read your dilemma as you’d like a Garmin G5 combo but don't want to keep the remaining 6 pack.  Do you have any interest fixing the 150 AP with a new BK head unit?  Are you ok with the trutrak AP limitations (no pitch trim, ILS capability, or legal approaches below 700agl)?  Are you planning on a new left side panel?

[thomas1142]

I sent the 150 for a repair estimate. I was told it needed to go back to the “factory”. I was offered a replacement unit for $4500 wit a core charge of $16000 ( yes, 16k). That ended my desire to fix the 150.

I want full approach capability all the way down.

yes, looking to replace the standard six pack with some type of glass, and remove all legacy engine monitors by installing a 900, which I recently purchased. So I guess the left panel will be completely redone.

[MIm20c]

Current opinions on the Aspen 1500:

-the 500 mfd will not qualify as backup instrumentation. 

-leveraging unlocks is hard with the 500. SV and AOA need both the pfd and mfd (almost double the price)

-expensive considering max units will demand a premium when first released. The backup option will be costly with the L3 500 or mid cont unit. 

Without a doubt I’d spring for the 2000 Max if buying an Aspen system now. No backup requirement, independent unlock requirements, and lots of capabilities. 

[MIm20c]

Current opinions on the 7 inch txi w/ g5 backup

-SV is very costly, $2.6k. 

-plays nice Garmin equipment and .... older Garmin equipment. 

-integrates with the gfc500 with full functionality. 

-no mfd besides a small one inside the hsi. 

-no battery backup without spending more. 

-ideally two Garmin sources (430w and above / Garmin nav/com). Will allow the g5 to provide backup navigation. 

-more $’s per inch of screen vs the 10 inch unit. 

[ArtVandelay]

Current opinions on the 7 inch txi w/ g5 backup

-SV is very costly, $2.6k. 

-plays nice Garmin equipment and .... older Garmin equipment. 

-integrates with the gfc500 with full functionality. 

-no mfd besides a small one inside the hsi. 

-no battery backup without spending more. 

-ideally two Garmin sources (430w and above / Garmin nav/com). Will allow the g5 to provide backup navigation. 

-more $’s per inch of screen vs the 10 inch unit. 

If you have G5 as backup, don’t need battery backup, G5s have their own. Add a Flightstream and iPad; you now have an mfd and sv...and for less than $2.6k.

 

 

Tom

[ArtVandelay]

26 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Current opinions on the Aspen 1500:

-the 500 mfd will not qualify as backup instrumentation. 

-leveraging unlocks is hard with the 500. SV and AOA need both the pfd and mfd (almost double the price)

-expensive considering max units will demand a premium when first released. The backup option will be costly with the L3 500 or mid cont unit. 

Without a doubt I’d spring for the 2000 Max if buying an Aspen system now. No backup requirement, independent unlock requirements, and lots of capabilities. 

2000 Max is $20,000?

OP has to decide if he wants the eye candy (sv,aoa) or just the 6 pack replaced.

[thomas1142]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

2000 Max is $20,000?

OP has to decide if he wants the eye candy (sv,aoa) or just the 6 pack replaced.

Eye candy not that important, getting rid of six pack with modern glass—-definitely 

[thomas1142]

32 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Current opinions on the Aspen 1500:

-the 500 mfd will not qualify as backup instrumentation. 

-leveraging unlocks is hard with the 500. SV and AOA need both the pfd and mfd (almost double the price)

-expensive considering max units will demand a premium when first released. The backup option will be costly with the L3 500 or mid cont unit. 

Without a doubt I’d spring for the 2000 Max if buying an Aspen system now. No backup requirement, independent unlock requirements, and lots of capabilities. 

I was under the impression that the Aspen 1500, 1000pro MFD and the 500 mfd, replaces the six pack. Is that not so?

[MIm20c]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

2000 Max is $20,000?

OP has to decide if he wants the eye candy (sv,aoa) or just the 6 pack replaced.

Both Garmin and Aspen have a 20-25% markup on the dealer install items. I’ve found many dealers will split that savings on larger install jobs. Normally I take off around 12-15% as a general average. 

IMO Aspen’s retail prices will settle in around around 15-17k for the 2k system in the next   8-10 months. 

[MIm20c]

9 minutes ago, thomas1142 said:

I was under the impression that the Aspen 1500, 1000pro MFD and the 500 mfd, replaces the six pack. Is that not so?

Unfortunately the 500 unit does not come with a backup ahars unit. Its display and functions are piggybacked off the pfd. 

Do you have a picture or list of items in your panel?

Edited February 15, 2019 by MIm20c

[Marauder]

I was under the impression that the Aspen 1500, 1000pro MFD and the 500 mfd, replaces the six pack. Is that not so?

If you buy just a PFD 1000, the ASI, altimeter and backup AI stay. The VSI can be removed. With a Aspen 2000 with the extended battery pack, the ASI & altimeter can be removed and the backup AI stays.

With the Aspen 2000 Max, the ASI, altimeter and backup AI all can be removed.

The Aspen 1500 & Aspen 1500 Max will still require all backup instruments.

As for the integration scenario asked. The most likely scenario is the G5 will become essentially a control head for the GFC 500 and manage the GPSS signal for the autopilot. The Aspen will receive Nav data from the navigator and display it, but I think it will depend on Garmin how much of the control for the AP will be allowed on the Aspens (heading bug, GPSS, etc.)

If you are headed down the GFC path, it would make more sense to look at the Garmin suite where it will be integrated.

For those of us with STEC autopilots, the move up to the digital 3100 makes more sense since it is expected that the 3100 control (like altitude preselect, IAS climbs, etc.) all to be controlled either from the 3100 control head or the Aspen.


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[Marauder]

I didn’t mention the Aspen 2000 without the extended battery pack. This was the configuration I have. I had to retain the ASI & altimeter with the AI until I installed the L-3 ESI-500. The ESI-500 by itself has the ability to display ASI, altimeter, AI and Nav data. Pretty powerful box which I will keep when I move up to the Aspen Max.




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