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DingyHarry

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New to the forum here and also a new pilot. Didn’t find exatly what I was looking for so thought I’d start a new thread. I’m considering a mooney with a garmin 530 installed. It does not have an autopilot system. What would I need to equip the plane with autopilot and ball estimate what would it cost? Thanks guys!

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32 minutes ago, DingyHarry said:

New to the forum here and also a new pilot. Didn’t find exatly what I was looking for so thought I’d start a new thread. I’m considering a mooney with a garmin 530 installed. It does not have an autopilot system. What would I need to equip the plane with autopilot and ball estimate what would it cost? Thanks guys!

To do this today... you're probably looking at between $15K and $20K installed... that would be an Stec30. Or you could wait for the TrueTrak which is supposed to be about $7K + installation? But waiting on manufacturers who are waiting on the FAA  is typically anywhere between 1 day and 5 years... or never.

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2 hours ago, DingyHarry said:

New to the forum here and also a new pilot. Didn’t find exatly what I was looking for so thought I’d start a new thread. I’m considering a mooney with a garmin 530 installed. It does not have an autopilot system. What would I need to equip the plane with autopilot and ball estimate what would it cost? Thanks guys!

To raise another common theme ... It probably depends on your typical mission. 

The Garmin GFC500 seems likely to receive approval for several M20 models within the calendar year. A GFC500 install with two G5's will likely set you back 25-30k, but offers considerable functionality beyond the factory panel. If you do a lot of IFR, the ability to fly full coupled approaches to minimums is not something you'll have initially with the TruTrak. 

That said, the TruTrak might be a great alternative if you do primarily VFR flying. Allegedly $7500ish all-in, but with no coupled approaches on day one. (This could change with future amendments to the as-yet nonexistent STC.)

As always, think about your typical mission, and whether this is a stepping-stone plane or your "forever" plane. 

 

 

 

Edited by toto
Edited to reflect SteveW's correction below.
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59 minutes ago, toto said:

but with very conservative coupled MDAs that would not allow approaches to minimums on day one

Well, the current certified AFMS says no coupled approaches at all: "This autopilot has not been evaluated to meet certification requirements for coupled instrument procedures, including coupled approaches. Therefore coupled instrument approaches and procedures are not authorized without further approval."

 

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5 minutes ago, Steve W said:

Well, the current certified AFMS says no coupled approaches at all: "This autopilot has not been evaluated to meet certification requirements for coupled instrument procedures, including coupled approaches. Therefore coupled instrument approaches and procedures are not authorized without further approval."

 

Cool, thanks for the clarification. I wrote that without consulting [anything] :)

 

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When buying yourself a Mooney - do NOT get your heart set on a specific tail number. There will always be others. 

First one I looked at had ADS-B, 201 Yokes, a JPI930 and a bad ass paint scheme. Sparkles in the retro paint was awesome.

It did not have an Autopilot, an Aspen, nor a Waas GPS. 

My aircraft autopilot does not do altitude hold but it tracks the GPSS and heading etc. That + glass cockpit,  Waas GPS is more important to me. Especially the WAAS GPS part. 

 

Autopilot + Waas GPS + Engine Analyzer is all I need.

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6 hours ago, DingyHarry said:

New to the forum here and also a new pilot. Didn’t find exatly what I was looking for so thought I’d start a new thread. I’m considering a mooney with a garmin 530 installed. It does not have an autopilot system. What would I need to equip the plane with autopilot and ball estimate what would it cost? Thanks guys!

First you need to let us know what you want from an autopilot.

Do you just want one that will climb/descend and level off at a preset altitude?  That will track a GPS course enroute and maintain altitude for you?  Something to make life easier on long cross countries and give you a chance to review the approach plate before you hand fly the approach?  Don't mind hand trimming when prompted?  Minimal cost?  If that's all you want, I'd personally get the TruTrak.  I'd prefer to do that than spend more than that for an old system.  That old system may cost you more to overhaul two servos than it would to buy and install the TruTrak.  Of course it isn't available quite yet but should be soon.  From what I've heard, $7 - $8k.

Or do you want an autopilot that will fly an ILS or RNAV approach to minimums for you so you can look for the runway?  And one that can fly the missed approach too?  Want electric trim?  A yaw damper?  Willing to spend $20 - $25k?  I'd get the Garmin GFC500.  That ones not available quite yet either.  Also soon.

Of course, either way you'll have to spend some time learning how to use them.  Don't use either one IMC until you know and understand the autopilot and how it interfaces with your navigator.

Best of luck.

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If you have your heart set on an AP, it will be substantially less expensive to find one already installed.  Just find what you want and look til you find it or come close.  Adding AP, engine analyzer, GPS, GPSS, etc gets pricey when you're the one doing it.

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My calculation used to be 4:1 but I'd say with values climbing it might be closer to 3:1. 

So figure that for every additional dollar you spend to buy the plane already equipped the way you want, will save you $3 to $4 that it would cost you to upgrade a lesser plane to that same equipment level.

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I've always liked King autopilots, but I recently went through several month's effort resolving an intermittent problem with the computer for a KAP 150. All the King autopilots are getting old, some parts are scarce, and there are fewer options for repair. 

I would look for a plane with an S-TEC, even though I agree with many that the rate-based autopilots don't fly nearly as precisely as the attitude based autopilots. Why? Because there are more upgrade options on the horizon (namely the S-TEC 3100 and the Avidyne DFC90) to upgrade the installation to a modern, digital, attitude-based autopilot without ripping out all the servos and wiring.

Some interesting history:

Ed King took the best engineers from Collins to form King Radio. Years later, the best engineers left King to start Garmin.

EDO morphed into Century after an employee buyout. A group of engineers left Century to form S-TEC to exploit the idea of rate-based autopilots. The idea was that the vacuum system/gyros were the most failure prone system and the fatal accident rate after an IMC vacuum failure was very high. On the other hand, turn coordinators had low failure rates. So, after a vacuum failure, the S-TEC would be able to bring you home safely. Not a bad idea, but they just never were as responsive as the attitude based autopilots. 

Skip

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My calculation used to be 4:1 but I'd say with values climbing it might be closer to 3:1. 
So figure that for every additional dollar you spend to buy the plane already equipped the way you want, will save you $3 to $4 that it would cost you to upgrade a lesser plane to that same equipment level.

This is not really true, because it’s not a apples to apples comparison.
Example is the autopilot:
Many planes have an STEC 30/50.
No one is going to add a STEC 30/50 to a plane that doesn’t have an AP. Instead they will add a modern digital AP, with glideslope capture, return to level, maybe IAS climbs, autotrim.
Much more functionality and capability.
Yes, both have APs, but they aren’t the same.
Another example is HSI, who is going to put in a mechanical HSI these days?
If you can find a true modern panel, no doubt it’s cheaper, but those are hard to find.


Tom
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3 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:


This is not really true, because it’s not a apples to apples comparison.
Example is the autopilot:
Many planes have an STEC 30/50.
No one is going to add a STEC 30/50 to a plane that doesn’t have an AP. Instead they will add a modern digital AP, with glideslope capture, return to level, maybe IAS climbs, autotrim.
Much more functionality and capability.
Yes, both have APs, but they aren’t the same.
Another example is HSI, who is going to put in a mechanical HSI these days?
If you can find a true modern panel, no doubt it’s cheaper, but those are hard to find.

I'll agree with you... when a modern digital AP, etc, etc, etc. is actually available for our Mooneys. If you bought a Mooney today (C through K), and wanted to add an autopilot, the only option is an STEC 30/50. Nothing else is available. We expect them to become available... sometime in the future... but today that isn't an option.

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I'll agree with you... when a modern digital AP, etc, etc, etc. is actually available for our Mooneys. If you bought a Mooney today (C through K), and wanted to add an autopilot, the only option is an STEC 30/50. Nothing else is available. We expect them to become available... sometime in the future... but today that isn't an option.

One more thing, I know you have a 252, but if you look at Jimmy Garrisons value guide, the ratio is closer to 2:1, again if apples to apples comparison. If just looking for a generic GPS, any kind is good, 650 is the same as 430, then it is closer to 3:1.
So for people like you and Marauder and myself, when day comes to sell, will need to find a buyer that appreciates the extra value of the installed equipment.


Tom
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  • 2 years later...

An old thread, but what the heck...

My Mooney had a Brittain autopilot that was installed, but didn't work when I bought it.  I hand flew the Mooney for about 2 years and 300 hours - doable (but I would feel tired and worn out (mixed with something akin to pride and "that was fun!") at the end of a long xc).

About a year after that, I discovered that the control head wasn't getting power - a reconnection of the power got the autopilot (with positive control working) working.

About 18 month after that, I now understand how to operate the altitude hold and with much help, got it working.

Given the above and given that the Mooney will flight straight and level pretty well (with a working PC), I put the greater value at having a working altitude hold - that has reduced by work load in the airplane significantly. If you want to see photos, click here: https://www.windfield.farm/brittain-autopilot

Dave

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