Flying in the rain...

[gsxrpilot]

Every CFI who's ever discussed icing with me, and every PP ground school book, reference material, test prep, etc. all say the initial reaction to icing should be to climb.

There is always a "top" to icing, above which there won't be any. Now whether you can get there or not is another topic. But often times icing can go all the way to the ground. Or even if it doesn't, it might be too close to freezing and too humid down low, to melt off the ice. Up high, in the very dry air, ice will usually dissipate quickly even if it's way below freezing temps.

[Marauder]

Every CFI who's ever discussed icing with me, and every PP ground school book, reference material, test prep, etc. all say the initial reaction to icing should be to climb.
There is always a "top" to icing, above which there won't be any. Now whether you can get there or not is another topic. But often times icing can go all the way to the ground. Or even if it doesn't, it might be too close to freezing and too humid down low, to melt off the ice. Up high, in the very dry air, ice will usually dissipate quickly even if it's way below freezing temps.

I think whether you climb or descend depends on the situation. Climbing when you are picking up icing up high probably won’t work if your plane’s climb ability has turned into the same as a Mack truck. If you didn’t pick up ice until you reached a higher altitude, descending may make more sense.

You may want to climb higher if you know the tops are reachable and the rate of accumulation is low. Reaching clear air will allow sublimation to do it’s thing.

The most scary is SLD.

The most eye opener thing I ever saw was a twin come into my airport in NY covered with ice. He was at full power, no flaps and pancaked landed. I never saw someone as scared as that young freight dog.




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[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Every CFI who's ever discussed icing with me, and every PP ground school book, reference material, test prep, etc. all say the initial reaction to icing should be to climb.

There is always a "top" to icing, above which there won't be any. Now whether you can get there or not is another topic. But often times icing can go all the way to the ground. Or even if it doesn't, it might be too close to freezing and too humid down low, to melt off the ice. Up high, in the very dry air, ice will usually dissipate quickly even if it's way below freezing temps.

Those of us with NA motors would not be successful at that.  Climb rates are already anemic above 10k', with ice accumulation even more so.  Ice also tends to be more severe at the tops of clouds, and if you can't get above them, now you've given yourself more problems.  Even those with turbocharged motors may not find succor...

 

[kortopates]

Ironic you would post that example. I remember that accident very well, hard to believe it was back in 2005 since it seems much more recent. This was pretty heavily discussed on the Mooney list and perhaps Mooneyspace since the pilot had gotten his instrument rating by one of our well known Mooney instructors.
I don’t know if we can call it good example of why climbing may not be a good strategy. I am of the opinion it depends on the circumstances. But IMO this is an excellent example of what happens when you do nothing till it’s too late and not having any options to get out of it. When he finally did take action, starting a climb already iced up not really knowing where the tops were sealed his fate.


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[ArtVandelay]

I don’t think I climb unless I was sure of being above the tops.

I also would have tried to make that trip during day.



Tom

[M016576]

Dicey weather over the sierras- they catapult moist cold air up pretty darned high... much like the cascades.  You can almost count on mod-severe icing above those mountains in the winter time.. sometimes up well into the flight levels

[Jim Peace]

10 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

all say the initial reaction to icing should be to climb.

I would probably do a 180 and look for warmer air....more than likely lower,,,but heat rises correct? This a whole nuther thread.

 

[carusoam]

Why climbing can work...

If climbing results in lower temps...

And lower temps are below freezing...

It may be possible to climb where the water is frozen before pelting the plane...

 

Unfortunately, this strategy seems to fall apart when steady state weather is not what you are flying in... large droplets are cooling, but not matching the air temp... or the rain drops are close to pure water and have super cooled...

Flying into super cooled water droplets will have the drops freeze as they run back over the plane...

This is the get out of dodge now... situation...

know where the warm air is... plan to go there...

If there is no warm air... flying into freezing rain runs out of alternatives.

Great lakes are a great resource for lots Of supercooled moisture. Until the lakes freeze over... This moisture can be spread for 1k miles in many directions...

Colgan Air 737 is our example on the east coast.... for mishandled ice build-up...  treat it like an emergency while you still can.

Better to lose a license than a life...

 

Thanks go to Andrew... few people ever say I have a good memory anymore...     Some types of memory are stored in different locations... dangers of ice in the intake gets stored in a different place than people’s names...

Best regards,

-a-

[jaylw314]

6 hours ago, kortopates said:

Ironic you would post that example. I remember that accident very well, hard to believe it was back in 2005 since it seems much more recent. This was pretty heavily discussed on the Mooney list and perhaps Mooneyspace since the pilot had gotten his instrument rating by one of our well known Mooney instructors.
I don’t know if we can call it good example of why climbing may not be a good strategy. I am of the opinion it depends on the circumstances. But IMO this is an excellent example of what happens when you do nothing till it’s too late and not having any options to get out of it. When he finally did take action, starting a climb already iced up not really knowing where the tops were sealed his fate.
 

I wasn't aware of the context of a connection to MS.

[DXB]

The AOPA ASI video mainly illustrates the need to communicate and act decisively at the first sign of an icing issue.   If it's obvious where to find air that's well above freezing or devoid of visible moisture close by, I'll go there when first faced with ice.   If it's not obvious, climbing as a knee jerk reaction still makes little sense to me. Climbing higher in that cloud layer without knowing the tops are close by could certainly make things a lot worse.  One might also find warmer air above in that freezing rain, but how much am I going to accumulate on the way up before I get to a point where it melts?  Where I am relative to slope of that frontal boundary seems to matter a lot in that freezing rain situation and other icing scenarios too if I am hunting for warmer air.  

Just as with engines quitting after some particular action, "undo the last thing you did" seems easy to remember with icing, even when near-paralyzed by fear.  If I flew into it in level cruise, a 180 degree turn seems pretty likely to get me out of trouble if I do it promptly.  If I just climbed or descended into it, immediately reversing my altitude change may help too, but reversing my course at the same time almost certainly will.  

I'd like to learn a lot more about this topic beyond the basics, but I still think it's hard to take all the guesswork out of it regardless. 

 

[Andy95W]

The rationale discussed 28 years ago when I got my instrument rating was that more altitude was always a good thing, and that you should climb when you had the chance. When your wings and prop are all iced over, there’s a good chance your only option is to descend. So grab the altitude while you can, and there is also the good possibility that you’ll get out of the icing conditions. Simultaneously doing a 180° turn is good insurance as well.  

[Pete M]

Freezing rain is but one way ice accumulates. If I'm at 5000ft and the cloud bases are at 10k do I climb? Hell no. If I'm in cloud and start picking up ice do I climb to where ice is generally at it's worst hoping I can punch through? If I'm just below the clouds in freezing rain and it's 30f how many thousands of feet do I need to climb in visible moisture before it's 0 F and the ice stops accumulating?  Situations are all different depending on freezing level and other factors but generally a 180 should be your safest choice if you noticed the ice fast enough. No one says you can't do a climbing or decending 180. Noticed early enough, the 180 is usually your quickest way out.

The above is meant for the less experienced of us. The older guys have learned how to put the pieces of the puzzle together to obtain the best solution. That's why they're older:) Just my 2 cents of internet wisdom. YMMV...

Edited February 12, 2019 by Pete M

[MinneMooney]

On 2/2/2019 at 9:14 PM, moodychief said:

I fly IFR in most weather...including rain.  As far as the paint goes,  if you fly in the rain enough it will not only take paint off the leading edge of the prop but also the wing and tail surfaces.  Unlike a lot of people, I didn’t buy my airplane to be a beauty queen.  I bought it to get me places without worrying about the weather.  I can touch up the paint routinely to keep her a thirty footer!!

My ‘65 C has a clear protective plastic on the leading edges of the wings and tail surfaces. Put on by the previous owner. Not sure where it came from.

[Hector]

My ‘65 C has a clear protective plastic on the leading edges of the wings and tail surfaces. Put on by the previous owner. Not sure where it came from.

It is 3M erosion tape.


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