chan65 Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 Picking up plane Friday with new Lycoming motor , would love to hear feedback on best and worst break in schedules and fluids, Lasar said mineral oil MP 2600 30 min 2550 30 min then 26 again and 2550 again. First two hours , what have others done ? Quote
Mjknick@gmail.com Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 Also low altitudes with high manifold pressure to wear in the rings and cylinders. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 1 Quote
Mjknick@gmail.com Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Lycoming%20Reciprocating%20engine%20Break-In%20and%20Oil%20Consumption.pdfSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
jaylw314 Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 Mike Busch also just had an article in AOPA Pilot on cylinder break-in that's worth a read 1 Quote
carusoam Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 I went with following the written instructions by the OH company... They were written this century, make sense, no OWTs... The warranty period was pretty short. following the instructions is pretty important... I also hired a Mooney specific CFII to join me for the first few flights... High power, low altitude, rich mixture, varying RPMs, every 15 minutes or so... There are reasons for every step, and why it is done that way.... Signs of the break-in process being complete include CHTs not being as high as the rings wear in...  a great opportunity to review each flight using your JPI download... If your OH was done where it sees a couple of hours of ground run... you might not see the CHT change.  My engine came from Continental, factory reman... the procedure was a couple of pages long, not hard to follow...  lots of memorized steps... that may be hard to follow when screaming along the ground, scanning for traffic and watching the gauges like a hawk.  The full break-in procedure. Probably lasts 100 hours using the oil they recommend... Enjoy the flights... they are a bit different than my normal cruise, LOP at high altitude... PP thoughts, not a CFI or mechanic... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
PT20J Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 There's lots of advice about this depending on who you ask. Some regimens are pretty complicated; some are pretty simple. I thought Mike's article cited above pretty much nailed it.  I recently put a factory rebuilt engine on my J and it seems to be doing fine just keeping three important points in mind: 1. Use the recommended break-in oil (a warranty consideration) 2. Run at high power for the first few hours to seat the rings and don't do low-power descents, stalls, and touch and goes. 3. Keep the cylinder head temperatures under control. An engine from the Lycoming factory (new, rebuilt or overhauled) will have been run in a test cell for an hour under varying conditions designed to test the engine and get the break in off to a good start. I instructed at several flight schools over the years. After a couple of hours test flying a new engine, the maintenance department would release it to the flight line and the only instructions were, "use mineral oil and don't do touch and goes." I've flown seaplanes for two part 135 operators and again, after a couple of hours of test flying, maintenance turns it over to the line pilots with the only admonition being to use mineral oil. These engines did just fine. On my engine, I never had high CHTs nor did I see them decrease significantly during the break in. Break in is considered finished when oil consumption stabilized which means that it it burns X hrs/qt consistently. Though Lycoming doesn't require it, I changed the oil and filter after 10 hours and will change to AD oil after another 25. I think the process can be stressful because it's something that we don't do often, there's a lot of money involved, and we don't want to screw it up. But, in the end, it's not magic. I'm sure you'll do just fine. Skip 2 1 Quote
Boilermonkey Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 I'd do all of this over the nice farm land of Indiana where if something goes wrong...you have plenty of choices to put it down safely. A good time to practice ground reference maneuvers.Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk 1 Quote
mike_elliott Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Boilermonkey said: I'd do all of this over the nice farm land of Indiana where if something goes wrong...you have plenty of choices to put it down safely. A good time to practice ground reference maneuvers. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk  by the time he gets to Indy from Ca, it will be well broke in. Quote
Bravoman Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 One thing to note is that if your Lycoming is turbo charged Lycoming dictates that AD oil rather than mineral oil be used for break-in. As I understand it, a lot of the overhaul shops now recommend AD oil for break-in on all engines,  but I would go with whatever your overhauler  recommends. Also, do not use Cam guard or anything similar during the break in process as it will prevent seating of the rings.  Quote
chan65 Posted January 29, 2019 Author Report Posted January 29, 2019 thank you I did read that, but this is just s standard 201 1 Quote
chan65 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Report Posted February 11, 2019 On 1/28/2019 at 10:31 PM, carusoam said:   On 1/28/2019 at 10:31 PM, carusoam said: I went with following the written instructions by the OH company... They were written this century, make sense, no OWTs... The warranty period was pretty short. following the instructions is pretty important... I also hired a Mooney specific CFII to join me for the first few flights... High power, low altitude, rich mixture, varying RPMs, every 15 minutes or so... There are reasons for every step, and why it is done that way.... Signs of the break-in process being complete include CHTs not being as high as the rings wear in...  a great opportunity to review each flight using your JPI download... If your OH was done where it sees a couple of hours of ground run... you might not see the CHT change.  My engine came from Continental, factory reman... the procedure was a couple of pages long, not hard to follow...  lots of memorized steps... that may be hard to follow when screaming along the ground, scanning for traffic and watching the gauges like a hawk.  The full break-in procedure. Probably lasts 100 hours using the oil they recommend... Enjoy the flights... they are a bit different than my normal cruise, LOP at high altitude... PP thoughts, not a CFI or mechanic... Best regards, -a-  Quote
chan65 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Report Posted February 11, 2019 About 6 hours in to the break in process I’ve followed the procedures closely, Lycoming also has a very helpful Tech support line for new engines. They do recommend changing the oil at 5 hours, so I did that, and did see traces of metal, very very fine, once I rinsed the filter with gas, they said this is normal as those are the ridges on the walls , I’m to run the mineral for another 25 hrs then go ahead.  one interesting thing, I’m not really seeing oil use, I sat prety much at 7 qts from 0hrs to 6, so we will see, but I’ve seen some posts lately about much more. The motor is strong and so far I’m really happy, thanks for all the help 1 Quote
donkaye Posted February 11, 2019 Report Posted February 11, 2019 I've attached my break-in documentation that I compiled during break-in. I just followed the Lycoming procedure. 1st hour at 75% power, 2nd hour alternating between 65 and 75 % power, last ½ hour full power.  As mentioned above, I'm using regular oil per Lycoming recommendation. Engine Breakin N9148W 1.xlsx 2 Quote
FloridaMan Posted February 11, 2019 Report Posted February 11, 2019 Follow the manufacturer's recommendations. Every pilot should read this: http://continentalmotors.aero/xPublications/Maintenance Manuals/TEC-1/  Admittedly, I have not read that version. The one I read had a section called "Don't baby your engine" Specifically, look at the part in the document that talks about ring seating and it explains why it's necessary to run high power settings. This is Continental, not Lycoming, but the concepts and explanations will help you understand why manufacturers recommend operating them in a way that seems counter to what you may've learned with cars. Quote
chan65 Posted February 20, 2019 Author Report Posted February 20, 2019 13.5 Hrs on the new motor and it seems to be going well, I changed oil at 6 hrs and it really didnt seem to be using any oil. I put another 7.5 on this week and filled with 8 and I was still at 7.5 after 4.5 hrs. seems stable, though i will continue to run it hard and go with mineral oil through 50 hrs Quote
M20F Posted February 20, 2019 Report Posted February 20, 2019 A large investment which if done by Lasar is a reputable shop so their advice is sound.  Personally I would go with their advice (or have them break in) versus the mass intellect of the Internet. The aviation world is filled of a lot of so called experts. 2 Quote
triple8s Posted February 20, 2019 Report Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) The most dangerous time to fly an airplane is after it has been put back together. Not bashing mechanics at all but they are human and sometimes things get missed. I would make sure to look at the engine with the cowlings off before I ever climbed into an airplane that had an engine installed and was the "first" flight. Seen first hand a fuel line come almost disconnected during the first 30 mins of break-in. Fuel line didn't come off but was so loose I could turn it several revolutions with my fingers, there was blue fuel streaks on side of fuselage and fuel stains on top of engine. The cyl temps had came down from the break in and were stabilized for a few minutes, then they started climbing. Next engine began misfiring, and the mixture helped initially but then it didn't help anymore. We were just about to leave the airport area and if we had the outcome would've been different. Luck was with us that day, and I was with a great pilot Thank God! once on the ground we went from scared to mad. A great learning experience. We've all heard it said that we should learn from our experiences, in aviation when you're lucky you "Live through" your experiences. Ignition systems, Fuel systems and Lubrication systems in that order will stop the power the quickest. Edited February 20, 2019 by triple8s spellin Quote
wiguy Posted February 20, 2019 Report Posted February 20, 2019  A good inspection after extensive work is always important. Most advice for engine break-in suggests limiting ground idling, at least excessive time. Of course one has to check things out before launching.  With my research it’s those 1st 2, 5, & 7 hours that are most critical. I thought Lycoming did a ‘test run’ of sorts before shipping, new engines.  I broke-in a factory new IO-390 last Summer. Indications seem to point that things are fine. Quote
RobertE Posted February 21, 2019 Report Posted February 21, 2019 I’ve broken in 3 engines.  Two responded normally (everything stabilized within 10-20 hours) but on the third it took fully 100 hours for the oil consumption in one cylinder to stabilize.  By about 50 hours I figured I must have glazed that cylinder but, no, it was all fine within another 25.  So don’t give up hope if you happen to experience the same oddity. Quote
PT20J Posted February 22, 2019 Report Posted February 22, 2019 3 hours ago, RobertE said: I’ve broken in 3 engines.  Two responded normally (everything stabilized within 10-20 hours) but on the third it took fully 100 hours for the oil consumption in one cylinder to stabilize.  By about 50 hours I figured I must have glazed that cylinder but, no, it was all fine within another 25.  So don’t give up hope if you happen to experience the same oddity. Interesting. How did you figure out which cylinder was the culprit? Quote
RobertE Posted February 22, 2019 Report Posted February 22, 2019 I inspected the plugs on each cylinder every 10 of 20 hours.  Plugs in three of four cylinders showed the indications of normal combustion but for 100 hours plugs in one of the cylinders showed evidence of an oil-rich environment.  To do this, of course, you need a torque wrench and a bunch of new gaskets but that’s a small expense in light of the $30K or so just spent for an overhaul. Quote
PT20J Posted February 22, 2019 Report Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, RobertE said: I inspected the plugs on each cylinder every 10 of 20 hours.  Plugs in three of four cylinders showed the indications of normal combustion but for 100 hours plugs in one of the cylinders showed evidence of an oil-rich environment.  To do this, of course, you need a torque wrench and a bunch of new gaskets but that’s a small expense in light of the $30K or so just spent for an overhaul. Did you check the compression on that cylinder? Curious if it changed during the break in process. Quote
RobertE Posted February 22, 2019 Report Posted February 22, 2019 I’m afraid I didn’t check compression.  My expectation would be that compressions would be normal, but I didn’t take that step.  I can tell you that at 75 hours and still burning oil I was absolutely certain I had a problem, but, no.  It cleared up at 100 hours. Quote
carusoam Posted February 23, 2019 Report Posted February 23, 2019 Apparently, some break-ins take all 100 hours... That was the guidance I got from Continental... I was fortunate, After following the guidance from Continental... I never noticed any issues related to break-in... The engine had a couple of hours on a test standard, a couple hours by my mechanic...then the fun began... X-countries, down low, high power, changing rpm... Â PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote
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