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Power settings for instrument approach


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I was watching the pilot workshops videos and I was looking for advice on best power settings for the 3 areas they discussed. Especially the 500 fpm descent with gear extended. I have a 1970C everything is standard.

Lawrence 

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Edited by Candy man
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You will likely get a bunch of differing responses to this one. The "best" bottom line is to DIY - fly and figure out what they are in your specific airplane. Second best is to start with the recommendations in the MAPA manual and tweak as needed. In case you don't have access to one, here is the M20C "by the numbers" page.

I'm curious about one thing. Is this the first time you heard about doing this? It should be a mainstay for instrument training in any airplane.

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I was watching the pilot workshops videos and I was looking for advice on best power settings for the 3 areas they discussed. Especially the 500 fpm descent with gear extended. I have a 1970C everything is standard.
Lawrence 
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As midlifeflyer mentioned, I would just go out and fly the profiles and build your own matrix. My F has some speed mods so my power settings may be slightly different than other F models. Here is what mine look like for a 75F.

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A few hopefully helpful additionalcomments:

You see two numbers for ILS descent. They both produce a 500 FPM descent, but at two different airspeeds. 120 is "normal" with "90" for short runways.  The idea is to allow you to slow down more easily when you break out.

The manual recommends no flaps for approaches. The idea is to make the missed simpler. That's a very personalized decision.

What is missing from the MAPA manual is a non-precision descent. Some list one; some don't. I don't know specifically why MAPA didn't put one in, but I suspect that its because a 1" change in MP will produce a 100 FPM change in the descent (and climb) rate and the rate a pilot wants for a nonprecision descent varies with bot the pilot and the conditions.

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The MAPA numbers work the challenge I find for most is getting the speed right as opposed to the power setting.  It takes awhile to slow a Mooney down.  They can slow down or go down but doing both tends to be a challenge.  Make sure you are communicating with ATC when you want to start your descent so you can be 120 or so prior to FAF.  Trying to burn off 6000 feet 4 miles out isn’t going to work with any MP setting. 

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It’s easier just to put half flaps  at glideslope alive. Gear at 1 a half dot low then bring the throttle  back about 1 inch. What’s the manifold pressure setting?  I don’t know, but it’s just like a jet airplane, you move the lever to get the speed that you want and if it’s not changing don’t move it....keep it simple. The missed is pretty simple too...You take off wirh flaps and you go missed  with takeoff flaps as well. 

Ymmv.  

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In my 1970 C, I generally fly the approqch at 23"/2300, my standard low altitude cruise for short lunch runs, etc. This will generally put me around 150 mph indicated. Pull a little throttle and slow to below 125 and add Takeoff Flaps. Then there are two options:

  • If intercepting a glideslope, when a dot-and-a-half high, drop the gear. The plane will settle pretty much i to the glideslope, leaving you to work on centering and making sure you don't drift up or down.
  • When passing the FAF, drop the gear.

In either case, trim is your friend.

While there is much good advice above, many J models have different gear and flap speeds than our Cs.

Do take the time to develop your own power setting chart. There are some excellent examples above, just don't expect to match the  numbers from an F or J. I found that even the MAPA book isninkyna starting place, as jt was written baswd on a 1962 or 63 C, with completely different performance than our more recent, electric model. The C was built for a very long time, and a lot of changes were made over the years.

Have fun and fly safe,!

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Probably a little off topic, but I'm looking forward to using the G5 to help me set my power setting on final.  Configure the way I want, adjust pitch to maintain the glideslope, adjust power to slow to my desired speed while continuing to adjust pitch as needed and then once I'm at my desired speed...  adjust power until the airspeed trend vector disappears.

Technique only.

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13 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Second best is to start with the recommendations in the MAPA manual

 

13 hours ago, DXB said:

I started with the MAPA guide

 

9 hours ago, M20F said:

The MAPA numbers work

How does one acquire a MAPA Manual? Is it only available if you attend a PPP, or is it available online?

Cheers
Rick

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4 hours ago, Junkman said:

 

 

How does one acquire a MAPA Manual? Is it only available if you attend a PPP, or is it available online?

Cheers
Rick

There's a partial one available on this site here. I don't think it has everything. There were a few other links in the past but who knows if they are still live.

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Thanks for all of the great responses.

To answer some of the questions, I was trained to use power settings but I did my instrument training in a c-172 then bought into the mooney. During instrument training your so busy going from approach to approach and focusing on plates and keeping the plane level ( no autopilot in the 172) that I believe you miss things or are just too busy concentrating on other things. If I were to train for my ir of give advice to someone who is doing their ir training it would be 2 things that I had wished I had done differently. 

1, there should be 20 minutes of flying and navigating between approaches. Time to review the plates top down fly straight and level or better yet descend to an IAF and fly the approach. 

2, I would also tell  anyone to make sure they had at least 5 hours of actual, and hand fly the approach in actual. Foggles  are great but it isn’t the same. 

I earned the rating last June and I’m still getting comfortable with the actual. I’ve set personal minimums way above published ones and tend to use the autopilot as I believe it flies better than I do. As it warms up in the Midwest I will spend some hours with an instructor this spring flying and approaching in actual to help build currency and confidence. 

The site is phenomenal I love the information ideas shared as well as the ribbing that goes on. Hope to meet a bunch of you guys this year, planning on attending sun n fun as well as osh. 

really  just glad to be part of the community/club.

 

Lawrence

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48 minutes ago, Candy man said:

Thanks for all of the great responses.

To answer some of the questions, I was trained to use power settings but I did my instrument training in a c-172 then bought into the mooney. During instrument training your so busy going from approach to approach and focusing on plates and keeping the plane level ( no autopilot in the 172) that I believe you miss things or are just too busy concentrating on other things. If I were to train for my ir of give advice to someone who is doing their ir training it would be 2 things that I had wished I had done differently. 

1, there should be 20 minutes of flying and navigating between approaches. Time to review the plates top down fly straight and level or better yet descend to an IAF and fly the approach. 

 

There "should be." IMO, it's done the way it is for two reasons. One, time is at a premium. You might get 3 approaches in 1.2 to 1.5. Add an extra 40-60 minutes of rental and instructor time to put 20 minutes between them.  Or more. There are those who would complain about that.

The other, one of the goals of the training environment is to intentionally overload you.  The required dual cross country is a little more realistic in terms of the time factor but, even then, there's little prep time.  Then you pass the checkride and take your first cross country trip and find all sorts of spare time to get ready for the one destination you are going to.

So it's a bit artificial but I think with good reason. Realizing the reason, we can target our practice sessions, whether with a n instructor, safety pilot, or in actual, to try to maintain the quick approach brief and setup.  

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1 hour ago, Candy man said:

I would also tell  anyone to make sure they had at least 5 hours of actual, and hand fly the approach in actual. Foggles are great but it isn’t the same. 

In most of the country, that's fine but in Southern Arizona, actual instrument conditions means either ice in the winter or convection you don't want to be in in the summer. The closest flyable IFR we have is the southern California marine layer which, even in a Mooney is two hours each way just to get to it. And, unless you depart before 6AM it has burned off by the time you get there.

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10 hours ago, Junkman said:

 

 

How does one acquire a MAPA Manual? Is it only available if you attend a PPP, or is it available online?

Cheers
Rick

Join MAPA it is cheap and helps the Mooney community.  

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2 hours ago, M20F said:

Join MAPA it is cheap and helps the Mooney community.  

I've been a member for a few years, from before I bought my airplane. Is the manual available for purchase separately, or is it only available as part of the PPP? I haven' been able to make one of those yet due to work scheduling conflicts. Someday soon I hope.

Cheers,
Rick

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On 1/20/2019 at 8:47 AM, jetdriven said:

Does MAPA give you the PPP manual?

I took the course 25 years ago when I owned my first Mooney and the manual was something you only got as part of the course. I think it's still that way. It was a nice reference but didn't include much original work except tables of Power/Attitude/Configurations for various models and flight phases which was interesting but something everyone can best work out for themselves based on how they prefer to fly the airplane. The rest was mostly excerpted from the POHs, Service Manuals, AIM, various ACs, etc. It's likely been improved over the years. I'm not saying that the course or material isn't worthwhile, but if you are well-studied and expecting to learn a lot of new things, you might be disappointed. Still, it was a good review and nice to have the material all in one book.

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13 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I took the course 25 years ago when I owned my first Mooney and the manual was something you only got as part of the course. I think it's still that way. It was a nice reference but didn't include much original work except tables of Power/Attitude/Configurations for various models and flight phases which was interesting but something everyone can best work out for themselves based on how they prefer to fly the airplane. The rest was mostly excerpted from the POHs, Service Manuals, AIM, various ACs, etc. It's likely been improved over the years. I'm not saying that the course or material isn't worthwhile, but if you are well-studied and expecting to learn a lot of new things, you might be disappointed. Still, it was a good review and nice to have the material all in one book.

As a new pilot and new Mooney owner (just a month after completing the insurance dual), the program and books were a godsend! So was flying with a CFI with thousands of hours in the same model Mooney. If you're a new owner, go. If you're a new pilot, go very soon.

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