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Considering purchasing a Mooney - transitioning from a C182


David Klasing

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So, I have about 5 years of flying under my belt, about 500 hours, an instrument rating.    My mission requirements have changed and I need a faster airplane.    I"m 56 years old, in reasonably good health.  I'm not god's gift to pilots...  I have had my share of excitement getting to this level of being a pilot.   

I have read quite a  bit out of this forum before reaching out to you folks...   I get that this group is really sold on Mooney's.   

My concerns are as follows:

Is a Mooney to much airplane for me?

How tricky are they to land?   

How hard will it be to transition to?

How reliable are they?

How safe are they?

How expensive to insure and maintain?

What do I need to know I have not even asked yet?

Who would you get involved for a prebuy inspection ?    

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Depends on the Mooney.  Your Skylane can just about keep up with my M20C.  That said, later Mooneys will happily leave you in the dust burning less gas.  What you miss in the Mooney is the expansive cabin, Mooneys are faster for a reason.  

No, a Mooney isn't too much for a Skyhawk driver.  We all transitioned from something.

I don't think a Mooney is any harder to land than Skylane.  You just have to be on the numbers.  Moneys have less prop clearance, so if you're into landing rough grass strips you may be in for some excitement.  Also, there are strips that a Skyline can muscle out of that a Mooney can't.

Moneys are on of the most solidly built airplanes.  they're airplanes, they're mad elf airplane parts, not pixie dust.  They break at about the same rate as any other airplane.  As far as safety, Mooneys have a steel roll cage around the cockpit.  They're stout.  A fellow crashed his into a house last year and walked away.

I expect a Mooney won't be a bit more to insure than your Skylane due to its retractable gear.

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First, welcome!

Is a Mooney to much airplane for me?

- I bought a J model with a PPL and 80 hours.  Got my IR training and checkride in it, working on Commercial now.  A Mooney is a predicable machine that responds quickly to pilot input.  Coming from a C172, the transition took about 10 hours for a complex sign-off...mostly for the insurance requirements. 

How tricky are they to land?   

- The J lands at almost the same speed as a C172 w/ no flaps.  It's the sight picture of the low-wing that is harder to get used to.  Landing isn't tricky, but it's very speed dependend...come in fast and you'll float and land long...come in on the numbers, and you'll land no problem.

How hard will it be to transition to?

-I found it relatively easy coming from a C172 with a fixed prop.  Remember flows, checklists, and the  gear...always remember the gear.

How reliable are they?

- In my 2 years of ownership, I haven't had any major issues.  Your results may vary based on previous history and storage location of the airplane you purchase.

How safe are they?

- One of the main reasons I bought a Mooney.  It's a steel roll-cage surrounded by an airplane.  If you look at NTSB reports, Mooney has a better ratio of injury vs. fatal per accident.

How expensive to insure and maintain?

- Varies by model, year, previous maintenance, etc.

 

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I give it a go:

Is a Mooney to much airplane for me?  
You are a 500hr pilot, you know now to fly an airplane - it will not be too much airplane but get transition training from a Mooney CFI

How tricky are they to land?   
They are not *tricky* but are not as forgiving as your Cessna.  I have heard from the cheif Mooney test pilot recently, for every 1kt above approach speed you fly, that is an extra 100ft of runway you will float.  "But Mooney's won't slow down," you say - yes, they will.  Get transition training to learn how.  I can come in "hot" to the pattern now and have not problem slowing my bird down because I know how to fly it. 

How hard will it be to transition to?
I would expect 5-10 hours with an experienced Mooney CFI to show you how to do it and not learn bad habbits.  Don't get a CFI that has <50 hours in the plane to do it - find an experienced person to teach you proper techniques.  It's not hard, I promise!

How reliable are they?
A peroperly maintained Mooney will last as long as anything out there.  The are built *VERY* strong.  They built a jig at the factor to test/stress the wing and it ended up breaking the jig before breaking the wing.  Common TCM and Lycoming engines.

How safe are they?
See note above about wing.  All Mooney's (still today) are built with a steel roll cage around the fusealge. Look at crash reports (an pictures) of Mooney's.  If you see the cabin door opened (post crash) or even the baggage door, you can probably surmise they occupants probably survived - might have even walked away.  Take a look at the same pictures for a Cessna or Beech.  Case made.

How expensive to insure and maintain?
Typical complex aircraft.  Probably no more than your 182. The RG in a Mooney is very simple and a single (strong) motor.  Mine is in annual right now and the inspection is going to cost $1800.  Insurance is all over the board.  It really seems to be linear with Hull value.  The more you are insuring, the more it is going to cost.  You are a 500hr pilot, with an IR - you should be fine.  Do you have any RG time?  If not, insurance might require the 10 hours of RG anyway.  I was 100hr pilot when I bought my first one and it has gone down since then.

What do I need to know I have not even asked yet?
Use this site.  If you have a question, it has probably been asked.  Use the search.  Probably next question to ask is which Mooney should I be looking for.  Mission?  Passengers?  Distance?  Useful Load? and Budget?  Normally Aspirated or Turbo? Location?  From those questions, we can suggest more reading on specific models.  I started out with an M20F, moved into a M20K 231, and now own my final bird: M20K 252 Encore.

Who would you get involved for a prebuy inspection ?    
100% an inspector that knows Mooneys!  The better inspection you get, the better off you will be.  Find a bird that is flying.  I would rather have a high time engine that flies 150hrs/year than a 300hr engine that has averaged 10 hours/year in the past 10 years.  Go with an expert on Mooneys.  Once you find one, we can suggest PPI experts in that area.

Continue to ask questions.  Good luck!

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Awesome input!!!  came to the right place... 

 

I weigh 250 pounds and I'm 5 foot 9 inches tall - will I fit?      If I have 500 pounds of passengers in the front seats...   my brother flies with me alot...  will a 252 still be within weight and balance?     What if I put bro all the way back on the rails? 

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Awesome input!!!  came to the right place... 
 
I weigh 250 pounds and I'm 5 foot 9 inches tall - will I fit?      If I have 500 pounds of passengers in the front seats...   my brother flies with me alot...  will a 252 still be within weight and balance?     What if I put bro all the way back on the rails? 


You’ll fit, but you’ll be tightly enveloped by the left side. If you have your friend next to you, you’ll need to really like him cuz you’ll be rubbing shoulders for the whole short trip. Short? Because depending on the model you’ll likely be at max gross with less than full fuel.

This is literally the only challenge in owning a Mooney; useful load and interior comfort. As far as everything else is concerned, you can’t do better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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3 minutes ago, David Klasing said:

Awesome input!!!  came to the right place... 

 

I weigh 250 pounds and I'm 5 foot 9 inches tall - will I fit?      If I have 500 pounds of passengers in the front seats...   my brother flies with me alot...  will a 252 still be within weight and balance?     What if I put bro all the way back on the rails? 

Every plane is different.  And especially for Mooney's, before you buy one ask about the useful load.  It will vary from under 900 lbs to just over 1000 lbs.  However, for my J model (the best model to get) I usually have 8 lbs of "stuff" in the baggage compartment and 4 lbs on the hat shelf.  With that and 500 lbs in the front seat I could have 58 gallons or less of fuel on board and still be within the CG limits.  If I had more than that then I would be out of forward CG if both of us had our seats all the way forward.

As a reference point, I always have my seat all the way forward when I'm flying.  But keep in mind that you'll rarely have that much fuel on board.  50 gallons is enough fuel for me to fly from Seattle to San Francisco and land with over an hour of fuel.

You mention a 252.  Where do you live that you think you need the turbocharger?

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Might want to put a location in your profile.   Might want to ask to see someone's plane that lives nearby.  Not that I have ever flown a  fighter, but I think the Mooney is a close as you can get.   the Mooney wing and the P51 have many similarities

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19 minutes ago, David Klasing said:

Awesome input!!!  came to the right place... 

 

I weigh 250 pounds and I'm 5 foot 9 inches tall - will I fit?      If I have 500 pounds of passengers in the front seats...   my brother flies with me alot...  will a 252 still be within weight and balance?     What if I put bro all the way back on the rails? 

I am 225 and 6ft.  I regularly fly my 252 with two other adults at gross.  Like someone said above, UL# is important in each machine.  Mine has 1050# useful load but another M20K next door might have only 850#.  I tell myself and my passengers, climbing in and out are not the most graceful but once you are in, it is comfortable - more so (for me) than a Cessna or Beech.

You mentioned W/B:  I sometimes put my passengers in the back seat (two adults without any CG issues.  They are not like some Beech aircraft where you really have to manage fuel to not get them out of CG.  Explore a W/B on a machine before you buy it.

I don't live in a place that *needs* the turbocharger, but I like to fly high and fast. I like having the option to climb above the weater or get in the 65kt tailwinds for free speed.  Options are why I went with the turbocharger.  Plus, this class of Mooney (generally) has more up-to-date electronics - but not always.

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16 minutes ago, David Klasing said:

Awesome input!!!  came to the right place... 

 

I weigh 250 pounds and I'm 5 foot 9 inches tall - will I fit?      If I have 500 pounds of passengers in the front seats...   my brother flies with me alot...  will a 252 still be within weight and balance?     What if I put bro all the way back on the rails? 

You and I are exactly the same size. Here we are with three of us... all about the same size. Just stagger the front seats and there is plenty of room. The Mooney cabin is actually 1.5" wider than your 182. It's just the ceiling height that is much less, but not needed as you're just about sitting on the floor.

Where are you located? Fill out your avatar with your location and one of us would be glad to take you for a ride in one. All Mooneys have the same dimensions for the front seats.

Most Mooneys are difficult to put out of CG. The one exception might be the Mooney Rockets. But for most of ours, all you care about is gross weight, the CG will be fine.

IMG_2637.thumb.jpg.4349be32fa614496f5598a302252e3b2.jpg

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here's my go at it:


Is a Mooney to much airplane for me?   no.
How tricky are they to land?    not at all.
How hard will it be to transition to?   if ALL your prior time was in high wings,  get ready to love low wings.  otherwise, not hard at all.
How reliable are they?   depends how well it was maintained, I guess.
How safe are they?   as safe as you are.
How expensive to insure and maintain?   I guess you have to shop around and get quotes, but if you have retract time and your IR, shouldn't be TOO painful to insure.  mx is whatever it takes.
What do I need to know I have not even asked yet?   be prepared for a good time.
Who would you get involved for a prebuy inspection ?    I've only purchased one plane and I got a PPInspection done, however in the future I would have a hard time accepting anything other than a full annual as part of the deal.

good luck!

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3 hours ago, David Klasing said:

Awesome input!!!  came to the right place... 

 

I weigh 250 pounds and I'm 5 foot 9 inches tall - will I fit?      If I have 500 pounds of passengers in the front seats...   my brother flies with me alot...  will a 252 still be within weight and balance?     What if I put bro all the way back on the rails? 

 

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Get a ride in a Mooney!!!

Lots of great people will be happy to give a ride.

 

Pay attention to getting in and out, it’s the one thing that’s not been mentioned. The 182 has 2 great big doors, we have one door and it’s on the passenger side, after climbing onto the wing you get to move over to the left seat. 

 

Lawrence

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1 hour ago, David Klasing said:

Just completed my profile...  I'm in Irvine CA and my C 182 is at KSNA   Love to go flying in Mooney and happy to buy lunch! 

I have an Ovation at John wayne. Feel free to PM me and we can meet.
Nik

edit: I believe at John Wayne we have around 15 to 20 models on the field, ranging from the basic M20C to the Acclaim type S. Just be warned, once you see 180knots consistently, its hard to go back.

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I transitioned from a C182 when I bought my J. I found the transition to the Mooney to be no more difficult than when I transitioned from a C172 to the C182.

I think the Mooney is a delight to fly and I feel that it is easier to land than the Cessnas - at least I think my Mooney landings are more consistent than my Cessna landings.

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8 hours ago, David Klasing said:

So, I have about 5 years of flying under my belt, about 500 hours, an instrument rating.    My mission requirements have changed and I need a faster airplane.    I"m 56 years old, in reasonably good health.  I'm not god's gift to pilots...  I have had my share of excitement getting to this level of being a pilot.   

I have read quite a  bit out of this forum before reaching out to you folks...   I get that this group is really sold on Mooney's.   

My concerns are as follows:

Is a Mooney to much airplane for me?

How tricky are they to land?   

How hard will it be to transition to?

How reliable are they?

How safe are they?

How expensive to insure and maintain?

What do I need to know I have not even asked yet?

Who would you get involved for a prebuy inspection ?    

1.  It isn't to much plane,  I transitioned with 200hrs and  by the end of the 5 hours of required training, I felt comfortable.

2.  Not tricky to land at all, you just have to understand, it likes to fly; HOLD it off till it lands, never force it down.  if you force/drop it in, it'll bounce like no tomorrow leading to a prop-strike.

3.  Not hard at all, just different site picture.

4.  I have an E, so can't really speak to the more complex models, but reliability hasn't been much of a concern.  ymmv.

5.  bout as safe as any other non turbine/multi GA plane.

6.  insurance hasn't been bad, 1500 first year, 1100 second.  Annual about 1600.

7.  Great plane to fly,  you might find yourself missing a door though

Edited by McMooney
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8 hours ago, David Klasing said:

Awesome input!!!  came to the right place... 

 

I weigh 250 pounds and I'm 5 foot 9 inches tall - will I fit?      If I have 500 pounds of passengers in the front seats...   my brother flies with me alot...  will a 252 still be within weight and balance?     What if I put bro all the way back on the rails? 

Most M20's are almost impossible to put out of balance.  in the M20J, the fuel tanks are pretty much smack on the CG, so your balance barely changes, and if you put two heavy people in front, it's still impossible to get the weight too forward.  Backwards, it would take putting your brother in the back seat as well as 100 lbs of luggage in the cargo area.

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If you select a middle spot, thinking that is approximately where ‘Both’ would be...

The surprise on the taxiway is about 30 seconds later...

If your fuel selector switch has no detectable detents left... it is time for a selector switch OH... :)

From my collection of transition training experiences from a C152 to an M20C...

Best regards,

-a-

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1 hour ago, carusoam said:

If you select a middle spot, thinking that is approximately where ‘Both’ would be...

The surprise on the taxiway is about 30 seconds later...

If your fuel selector switch has no detectable detents left... it is time for a selector switch OH... :)

From my collection of transition training experiences from a C152 to an M20C...

Best regards,

-a-

I do recall my friend who I did some IR safety piloting with made fun of me doing my GUMPS check in my M20J:

  1. Fuel tank fullest
  2. Fuel pump on
  3. Gear down -- white and green
  4. Mixture rich
  5. Prop full
  6. flaps down
  7. cowl flaps closed
  8. seat belts check
  9. Parking brake off

She pointed out her C172 GUMPS checklist was:

  1. Carb heat on
  2. Flaps down
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5 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

I do recall my friend who I did some IR safety piloting with made fun of me doing my GUMPS check in my M20J:

  1. Fuel tank fullest
  2. Fuel pump on
  3. Gear down -- white and green
  4. Mixture rich
  5. Prop full
  6. flaps down
  7. cowl flaps closed
  8. seat belts check
  9. Parking brake off

She pointed out her C172 GUMPS checklist was:

  1. Carb heat on
  2. Flaps down

No parking brake and seat belts in the 172?

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1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

I do recall my friend who I did some IR safety piloting with made fun of me doing my GUMPS check in my M20J:

  1. Fuel tank fullest--done at beginning of descent
  2. Fuel pump on
  3. Gear down -- white and green; check floor indicator on short final
  4. Mixture rich
  5. Prop full
  6. flaps down--set to Takeoff during downwind if not before, and adjusted as needed on final
  7. cowl flaps closed--cowl flaps fixed
  8. seat belts check--seatbelts always On
  9. Parking brake off--Parking Brake always Off

Sure am glad I fly a simple C model. Not sure I'd cut it in a J . . . . .  ;)   I've edited your list above for my plane, just 4 items.

Oh, I do verify that my Carb Heat is Off, but it's almost always Off anyway. I've used it prophylacticly in flight twice in twelve years and never due to actual or suspected ice.

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3 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I do recall my friend who I did some IR safety piloting with made fun of me doing my GUMPS check in my M20J:

  1. Fuel tank fullest
  2. Fuel pump on
  3. Gear down -- white and green
  4. Mixture rich
  5. Prop full
  6. flaps down
  7. cowl flaps closed
  8. seat belts check
  9. Parking brake off

She pointed out her C172 GUMPS checklist was:

  1. Carb heat on
  2. Flaps down

Why are you closing cowl flaps during GUMPS or prior to landing? Does your POH say to do that? Cowl flaps should be open at all time during ground ops. There is no utility in closing them in the pattern only to open them again after touchdown.

Edited by Shadrach
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