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Transitioning to Mooney


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18 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

I would not worry about the airframe just because it is a little older. It all depends upon its history. The peak of Mooney production was the mid '60s so for example you'll see more '66Es for sale than any other year. For Fs that's probably '67 though the model stayed in production through '76.

These plane are very robust and there is no real time limit to the airframe with the caveat that corrosion can scrap a plane that might look fine. Get a proper PPI.  

That sounds like excellent advice. Thanks!

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Yes you will need to get transition training and complex sign off.  Depending on the insurance company will determine how many hour they will require.  A CFI with Mooney experience is better than one without but at the end of the day if you are a good confident pilot the transition is nothing to worry about.  Read and learn everything about the plane you intend to buy before you buy it and before you get with the instructor that way you can teach him where the controls are and what to do.  The instructor is there to transition you to complex and to make sure you are not doing anything stupid.  Do plenty of pattern work and slow flight with the instructor and once you and him are comfortable with your work take advantage of any remaining time you are required to pay him for and get under the hood.  Then you will need to go out and really learn your plane.

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12 minutes ago, Huitt3106 said:

I know Phil!  I hadn’t thought about getting with him on that. He’s back down in this area now, I’ll have to talk with him  

Its a a lot of open land between Richmond and Lynchburg, luckily the SFRA is a bit north!

Phil is a good friend from the Navy, last I heard he was over at the FBO, but I haven't talked to him a over a year.

Brian

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19 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

Yes you will need to get transition training and complex sign off.  Depending on the insurance company will determine how many hour they will require.  A CFI with Mooney experience is better than one without but at the end of the day if you are a good confident pilot the transition is nothing to worry about.  Read and learn everything about the plane you intend to buy before you buy it and before you get with the instructor that way you can teach him where the controls are and what to do.  The instructor is there to transition you to complex and to make sure you are not doing anything stupid.  Do plenty of pattern work and slow flight with the instructor and once you and him are comfortable with your work take advantage of any remaining time you are required to pay him for and get under the hood.  Then you will need to go out and really learn your plane.

That sounds like an excellent point. Thank you!  Hopefully I’ll be able to have the problem of finding a cfi for transition training in the somewhat near future. 

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19 minutes ago, orionflt said:

Phil is a good friend from the Navy, last I heard he was over at the FBO, but I haven't talked to him a over a year.

Brian

Phil is a really nice guy. Last I saw him was back in the fall. He was at Falwell airport enjoying retirement I believe. 

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Hello all, I have been reading these forums for a while and am very interested in purchasing vintage Mooney for their capabilities and efficiency. It’s typically just me and the girlfriend which are both average frame and shouldn’t have any issue with available space. I am interested in anything between the C and F model (due to affordability). I have yet to actually fly in one and would love to find someone near the central Virginia area that would like to split the fuel cost and go for a flight. 

One other note is that I’ll be transitioning from a Cherokee 140/160 and have yet to receive any complex time. I have around 150 hours total flight time in just shy of 2 years. 

I guess my main question is if there’s anybody on here that may be near my area and also for any advice on transitioning. I’ll have to sell the Cherokee before I can even consider another purchase. 

As@Orionflt said, I'm located at FCI and I'd be happy to arrange a demo flight.

 

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Just now, ShuRugal said:

I did my transition with Lee. He taught me more in three days than I ever thought I would learn.

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I’d like to get in touch with him when I’m closer to needing the transition training! Thanks for the information!

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Reach out to @jgarrison and ask for his new pre-201 buyers guide. It will be a good education on the various models and the differences. It will also give you an education in how to value a vintage Mooney.  After you read it, and see the value, send him a few bucks in exchange. He might also help you find a good one.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for an E. But as others have said, condition and equipment are much more important than the differences between a C/E/F. I still maintain that if you're looking for a long term investment, a good E with a few speed mods and manual gear, will be the most economical and most efficient Mooney (or Certified, four-seat, piston single) you can own. 

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Just a single datapoint, but you should have no trouble with the transition.  I bought my Mooney with only 100 hours in a Cherokee Warrior and transition was simple.  MANY others on here have a similar story.  Having an instructor that had owned a similar Mooney for several years was a big help.  Biggest things to learn: routine for putting/checking gear down, engine management, and how to slow down (they like to keep flying fast).

+1 on the value guide.  If you buy a Mooney, you could send Jimmy a pretty big donation and still be money ahead.

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4 hours ago, steingar said:

Mooney should fit the bill just fine.  Says me if you haven't yard apes you should go for a short body Mooney, a B, C, D, or E.  Small back seat, but what do you care, you aren't using it frequently.  To be fair, the back seat is no smaller than that in your Cherokee.

 

Watch it there buddy.   As a close cousin of yard apes, I find the back seat of my F to be one of the most comfortable seats inside or outside an airplane.

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37 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Reach out to @jgarrison and ask for his new pre-201 buyers guide. It will be a good education on the various models and the differences. It will also give you an education in how to value a vintage Mooney.  After you read it, and see the value, send him a few bucks in exchange. He might also help you find a good one.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for an E. But as others have said, condition and equipment are much more important than the differences between a C/E/F. I still maintain that if you're looking for a long term investment, a good E with a few speed mods and manual gear, will be the most economical and most efficient Mooney (or Certified, four-seat, piston single) you can own. 

I will definitely have to get in touch with him on that!  It’ll be late spring or early summer before I’ll be able to start seriously looking (as long as the Cherokee has a new home). I’d rather purchase something that I’ll want to hang on to for a while. 

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You won't have a problem transitioning. I did so with 62 hours, all in C172s, but had a good CFI [who was selling his retirement plane to me!]. then I went to a MAPA PPP the next month. The Safety Foundation of the Mooney Aircraft Pilots Assn [www.mooneypilots.com] puts on Pilot Proficiency Programs at various locations around the country. I hit 100 hours total time flying away to it; lots of book learning, reference material to keep, discussion with other pilots and flight time in your plane with an experienced, knowledgable Mooney CFI with experience in your model Mooney.

Start working on speed control now. Calculate Stall Speed for your plane at your exact weight and fly at exactly 1.3 times that speed in the pattern; for me, I know my approximate landing weight, and subtract 5 mph from (1.3 x published stall speed for my configuration) for every 300 lb. I am below gross for that landing. Obviously your Piper will have different numbers and probably a different formula. The important thing is to fly that speed on short final, not 5 knots faster, and don't throw in a few more knots for the wind and a few more for safety. Mooneys like to fly, they like to fly fast, and they don't slow down well. Coming in hot leads to lots of float and long landings, or impatient pilots who push on the yoke to land and bounce, which becomes either a go around or a prop strike.

So practice speed control in the pattern. Find 1.3 Vs for the pattern, and slow to 1.2 Vs on short final, and be as exactly on speed as you can. It will help a lot when you buy your Mooney!

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41 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Reach out to @jgarrison and ask for his new pre-201 buyers guide. It will be a good education on the various models and the differences. It will also give you an education in how to value a vintage Mooney.  After you read it, and see the value, send him a few bucks in exchange. He might also help you find a good one.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for an E. But as others have said, condition and equipment are much more important than the differences between a C/E/F. I still maintain that if you're looking for a long term investment, a good E with a few speed mods and manual gear, will be the most economical and most efficient Mooney (or Certified, four-seat, piston single) you can own. 

Here's the link, @Huitt3106, along with the information that Jimmy wants when you request the package:

Happy hunting!

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Also, the old MAPAlog M20C report is a good starting point if you haven't read it before

As @Hank said, start practicing your speed control now.  I've mentioned before the most helpful thing I did in a Cherokee that eased my transition was a lot of short field landings.  Getting the airspeed pasted at exactly 57 KIAS in the Cherokee throughout final turned a light on in my head, and helped make my first Mooney landing a greaser. 

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2 hours ago, Yetti said:

Watch it there buddy.   As a close cousin of yard apes, I find the back seat of my F to be one of the most comfortable seats inside or outside an airplane.

I am afraid I am unrelated to a yard ape except in maturity.  That said, I flew in the back of an E once, and even I with my Lilliputian dimensions found the seat somewhat diminutive.

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3 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Also, the old MAPAlog M20C report is a good starting point if you haven't read it before

As @Hank said, start practicing your speed control now.  I've mentioned before the most helpful thing I did in a Cherokee that eased my transition was a lot of short field landings.  Getting the airspeed pasted at exactly 57 KIAS in the Cherokee throughout final turned a light on in my head, and helped make my first Mooney landing a greaser. 

Awesome, I can definitely do that. 

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A few years ago I was a very new pilot and wanted a Mooney, I was set on a E,F,J but couldn't find one I liked when a nice C came up for sale close by. I ended up buying it, and I think in a lot of ways it's worked out for the best. Being among the least complex maintenance wise has eased the transition into ownership. My only fault with it is that I am in the minority that has no problem flying for 4,5+ hours nonstop if I need to get someplace, and it doesn't have the tanks for that. An F with 12 more gallons and the ability to fly lean of peak could provide around two more hours endurance.

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You might also want to join the Mooney Pilots group on Facebook.  There are a handful of people on there based at KEZF.  I'm at KRMN but I have an M20R (you are welcome to drop in and look at it anyway if you want).  There are a few more on the field though that might be F's or J's.  

Lee Fox is a great recommendation.  I also want to get on this list of @201er's for fly outs.  Maybe we can meet at one.

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