Mooney_Allegro

Exxon Elite 20W-50 Oil - PENDING OBSOLETE

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10 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Wasn’t it Aviation consumer that rated Elite pretty low and they were able to show corrosion in their test lab well before others. Exxon spent some time trying to defend the results but never had a direct answer as I recall. 

-Robert

Iirc, AC had Exxon Elite as their best oil for corrosion protection in their last review about five years ago, while Aeroshell 15w50 was their top rated in the previous review about ten years ago. 

 

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From 2005: "In our brutal salt-mist test, Exxon Elite and Aeroshell 15W50 were best at stopping rust."

(AC had Exxon and Aeroshell tied for the top spot.)

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19 minutes ago, toto said:

From 2005: "In our brutal salt-mist test, Exxon Elite and Aeroshell 15W50 were best at stopping rust."

(AC had Exxon and Aeroshell tied for the top spot.)

toto,

Do you remember if Phillips 66 X/C 20W-50 was tested back in 2005 by Aviation Consumer?  I wonder how it did compared to the others.  

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30 minutes ago, Mooney_Allegro said:

toto,

Do you remember if Phillips 66 X/C 20W-50 was tested back in 2005 by Aviation Consumer?  I wonder how it did compared to the others.  

On corrosion prevention, they said:

"Phillips XC 20W50 finished well behind Elite and AeroShell, as well it should, for Phillips makes no claims for this oil’s rust-prevention qualities."

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35 minutes ago, toto said:

On corrosion prevention, they said:

"Phillips XC 20W50 finished well behind Elite and AeroShell, as well it should, for Phillips makes no claims for this oil’s rust-prevention qualities."

Thanks toto! Hopefully in the last 14 years, there's been some improvements.  It sounds like the key to prevent rust is to fly the plane a lot (once/week for 1 hour at normal operating temperatures) and (do the oil changes no more than 50 hours or 4 months, whichever occurs first) according to both Continental and Lycoming.  I do my best to fly once/week, but don't always measure up to that.  

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As a long-time Exxon Elite user, it was interesting to me that Ed Kollin was developing Elite as the next big thing in aviation oil before he left to make CamGuard. In my mind, Exxon Elite was always kind of a spiritual sibling to CamGuard.

But I was always disappointed at the poor FBO availability of Elite. It was painful to find a quart if you needed one away from home. 

You can buy Aeroshell 15W50 anywhere. 

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Agreed.  According to Ed, Camguard is what he wanted Elite’s additive package to be without the financial constraints placed on the product by Exxon.  Again, using Camgaurd with the mineral oil basestock of your choosing is the best of both worlds.  I add it to Phillips XC personally, but I don’t think brand makes much difference.
Admittedly it is a bit of a hassle having to add it, though.  
Jim
This is how I've read Ed's explanation...he developed the ultimate additive package to prevent rust, but the bean counters kept it from going into production with the Elite product. He left the company, came up with a similar aftermarket product and now there's Camguard. Elite has some of the same ingredients, but only like 2% of what is in Camguard IIRC.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

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Just a follow up, I still haven't heard back from the area aviation manager for Exxon but did call Exxon and the individual I talked to did confirm that Elite is not being produce and there is no replacement currently listed. he had no info on why the product was being discontinued. Exxon seems to be letting this product just disappear with out saying much or publishing anything.

Brian

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I just received a phone call today from EliteEtc.com, the place where I use to buy my Exxon Elite oil for years.  Anita Rouse, from EliteEtc.com advised me that they're getting a shipment of cases in shortly that will be for sale.  She also advised that Exxon has made the decision to exit the market due to pricing issues with all the additives that go into the Exxon Elite product.  She said there will be no replacement.   Her number is: 954-237-3962, and her cell is: 954-483-8411.  

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Genuine MSer... calling the supplier to get the answer, then coming back to MS to share the knowledge... :)

Way to go, Allegro!

 

Best regards,

-a-

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This is deja vu all over again. Back in the mid 90's Mobil (now Exxon/Mobil) pulled out of the aviation oil business saying that Mobil AV-1 synthetic was so expensive to produce that they could not sell it in a competitive market for a profit.

It turns out that they knew in their testing that after about 20 hours the oil was so full of sludge that it caused stuck rings, clogged up prop governors and hubs, premature cylinder wear, etc. A year after they quietly took it off the market, the class action lawsuits started coming and they had to buy a lot of engines. Independent tests showed that up to 15 hours it was the best oil at reducing friction and wear but after that it would break down and didn't have the ability to keep the contaminants suspended past that threshold.

After seeing how that they handled all of it I never trusted them for anything aviation related and have never bought a quart of their Exxon Elite.

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Just got my response from Steve :

ExxonMobil Fuels & Lubricants Company
22777 Springwoods Village Parkway Spring, TX 77389
April 3, 2018
Subject: Elimination of ELITE 20W-50
Dear ExxonMobil Customer,
As part of our continuous efforts to simplify our product line and best serve you this letter provides official notification that Aviation Oil EliteTM 20W-50 will no longer be produced.
Based on historical demand analysis drums are expected to be available until mid-2019, while Rest of World cases should be available through 3Q2018 and EU cases available through mid-2019. Please refer to the table below for the impacted material codes that will be available, but limited going forward.
    Material Name
     Material Code
   AVIATION OIL ELITE 20W50 CASE 12X1UQL
     NA/105349
   AVIATION OIL ELITE 20W50 DRUM 55USG
     NA/102321
   AVIATION OIL ELITE 20W-50, 12X1 QT
       AP/134983
    AVIATION OIL ELITE 20W-50, 55GA DRUM
  AP/134946
   AVIATIONOILELITE20W50,C12X1USQ
     SP/0081_8069131
   E-AVIA ELITE 20W50 12x0.25USG
     EU/131258
   E-AVIA ELITE 20W50 12x0.946L
     AS/110858
   E-AVIA ELITE 20W50 DRUM-L 208.2L/55USG
     AS/121076
   E-AVIA ELITE 20W50 Drum-U 55USG
       EU/131259
    E-AVIATION 120 CASE 12X1UQL
  NA/101463
   E-AVIATION EE120 CASE 12X1UQL
     NA/101443
   E-AVIATION OIL 20W50 CASE 12X1UQL
     NA/102978
   E-AVIATION OIL 20W50 DRUM 55USG
       NA/102979
   We thank you for the business you have provided to us over the years, we appreciate the opportunity to serve your needs. ExxonMobil is committed to the aviation industry and values your business. Should you have any questions regarding this product discontinuation, please contact your ExxonMobil sales representative.
Sincerely,
Ali Bakr Nicolas Lleras
Global Aviation Sales Manager Global Aviation Marketing Manager
  

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I don't buy their "simplify our product line" explanation. ExxonMobil is the world's 9th largest company by revenue. They are a huge target and my guess is they are limiting liability exposure.

Regarding Mobil AV-1 back in the 90's, Aviation Consumer said this:  "Then, in a move that caught most observers by surprise (and delighted us), Mobil announced in June 1994 that it had decided to withdraw AV-1 from the market and to repurchase all existing inventory stocks. Mobil's press releases characterized this move as a marketing decision."

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4 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

This is deja vu all over again. Back in the mid 90's Mobil (now Exxon/Mobil) pulled out of the aviation oil business saying that Mobil AV-1 synthetic was so expensive to produce that they could sell it in a competitive market for a profit.

It turns out that they knew in their testing that after about 20 hours the oil was so full of sludge that it caused stuck rings, clogged up prop governors and hubs, premature cylinder wear, etc. A year after they quietly took it off the market, the class action lawsuits started coming and they had to buy a lot of engines. Independent tests showed that up to 15 hours it was the best oil at reducing friction and wear but after that it would break down and didn't have the ability to keep the contaminants suspended past that threshold.

After seeing how that they handled all of it I never trusted them for anything aviation related and have never bought a quart of their Exxon Elite.

For what it's worth, I continued using AV-1 for a decade after it was pulled from the market, and had great luck with it. Switched to Exxon Elite at 2000 hours, and finally overhauled at 2500 hours purely out of paranoia when the engine still had mid-70's compressions on all cylinders. 

This was in a normally aspirated Lycoming four-banger.

I understand that most people having problems were running turbos, including Richard Collins from Flying magazine (who bought his ink by the barrel and had to tear down the engine in his C-210).

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Our local flight school uses Aeroshell W80 & W100, no additives other than Lycoming LW16702 in their 76 series engines in a few older 172’s and Piper Seminoles.  They routinely get 3500-4000 hours before overhaul on their O-235’s, O-320’s, O/IO-360’s.  They swore off multi grade oils years ago.

The local engine shop is overhauling one of their engines which has run 10,000 hours on Aeroshell and the crank still measures at new dimensions.

Clarence

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On 1/11/2019 at 6:07 PM, nfonville said:

@gsxrpilot  Curious about your reasoning to not use AeroShell 20-50 vs the Phillips.  I have owned 6 planes in the last 20 years and this Mooney Bravo I have now is the first one with Phillips X/C used.  Never really thought about another brand beside Aeroshell before this plane.  Had thought about changing back but have heard don't change types once an engine is broke in.  Not questioning or debating, just curious about others thoughts.

Good question. I guess its mainly because these are the two oils I see on the shelf at every shop and FBO. I rarely see AeroShell 20-50 anywhere. Maybe it's because I'm mostly in the south? 

Last year I ran the Aeroshell 100+ the whole year. But this year we knew we'd have the airplane in the snow, and very cold weather for a couple of weeks and so changed over to the Phillips multi-grade just for the winter.

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Was placing an order with Aircraft Spruce today, they no longer show Exxon Elite on their website.  Wanted to get through this last oil change and then need to make a decision which way to go.  Leaning toward Aeroshell and camguard.  Really don’t like the idea of switching cold turkey half way to overhaul.  Will be curious (maybe morbidly) if this leads to issues for those of us who need to switch.

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I have stocked up on several cases and have access to more if you would like me to grab a few for you. 

Brian

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6 minutes ago, orionflt said:

I have stocked up on several cases and have access to more if you would like me to grab a few for you. 

Brian

Thanks Brian!!

I appreciate the offer!!.  I do have a source, just higher price.  Was surprised Spruce gave it up so quick. Trying to decide which way to go. Wondering if others have experience switching oils?

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10 hours ago, takair said:

Thanks Brian!!

I appreciate the offer!!.  I do have a source, just higher price.  Was surprised Spruce gave it up so quick. Trying to decide which way to go. Wondering if others have experience switching oils?

I swapped from aero shell to Phillips when I first bought my plane. I was flying  a lot and had the oil screen so I was changing my oil every 25 hour. After the first oil change I started noticing oil leaks. Part of it was tha age of the engine and the increased use, but I also believe part of it was from changing brands of oil and the difference in the additives. 

Currently im using aeroshell 100 plus since doing an IRAN on the engine and have had no issues. A friend of mine who has only used Exxon in the engine of his IVP is stocking up so he doesn’t have to swap any time soon. He uses aeroshell in his other planes. 

We just swapped another friend from Exxon to aeroshell (lycoming o-360). I will be keeping an eye on that for issues. 

Brian

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