Mooney_Allegro

Exxon Elite 20W-50 Oil - PENDING OBSOLETE

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I spoke to Exxon today and was told that it's being discontinued.  The reps words were, "PENDING OBSOLETE"  Aircraft Spruce has already discontinued it.  You can still help them get rid of their old inventory, as it's still available from retailers, but will not be replenished.  

I knew something was wrong back in July 2018 when Elite Etc.com (distributor) didn't offer an Oshkosh Discount.  I always stocked up on Exxon Elite during Oshkosh and Sun 'n Fun for the last 15 years.  After I found out they didn't offer a discount, I switched immediately to Phillips 66 X/C 20W-50 after doing some research.   The switch was also motivated by speaking to Mooney mechanics at MSC's, including Continental Motors that advised me that semi-synthetic is not as good as oils such as Phillips 66 X/C (blue container).   Continental Motors (at the factory) uses Phillips 66 X/C as their oil of choice.   Same thing with Cirrus at their factory.  

I also spoke with RAM aircraft at EAA Oshkosh, who overhauls engines.  Here's what they say, "Most important to RAM is that the oil be MINERAL BASED.  RAM recommends a multi-viscosity ashless dispersant mineral based oil such as Phillips 66 X/C 20W-50.  (RAM service history records indicate that Mineral Based AD oils perform significantly better than synthetic and semi-synthetic oils). 

I apologize if this was covered in a previous post.

 

-David 

 

 

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Thanks for the post.  I’ve been using Exxon for better than 20 years.  It’s gotten expensive, but I liked the idea of not adding anything.  Phillips was always appealing for its price.  Are you using any additives since switching?  I’m sure this topic will be worth popping some corn over.  It’s got to be up there with LoP ops as to the number of opinions.

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Is Exxon planning to release (or HAS released) anything similar to it?  This is all I've used, and has worked extremely well.

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23 minutes ago, takair said:

Thanks for the post.  I’ve been using Exxon for better than 20 years.  It’s gotten expensive, but I liked the idea of not adding anything.  Phillips was always appealing for its price.  Are you using any additives since switching?  I’m sure this topic will be worth popping some corn over.  It’s got to be up there with LoP ops as to the number of opinions.

takair,

Continental Motors does NOT recommend using ANY additives, and I don't use any additives to any oils I've ever used.  (I've only used Exxon Elite in the past).   I've flown with many flight students that have used "Marvel Mystery oil" in their engines and they swear by it, but I can't comment on that, as I'm in no way an expert on oils.  

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Apparently(third hand) the engine shop my engine went to also made some not-so-good remarks about Exxon when it got there. I was thinking of changing based on that, but now I guess I don't have a choice.

 

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5 minutes ago, Steve W said:

Apparently(third hand) the engine shop my engine went to also made some not-so-good remarks about Exxon when it got there. I was thinking of changing based on that, but now I guess I don't have a choice.

 

Perhaps that's why 3 Mooney Service Center's I use don't keep Exxon Elite in stock.   They always have to know in advance when I'm coming, so they can order a case in.  I'm very happy with the switch to Phillips 66 X/C.  It's definitely A LOT cheaper for my wallet, and most, if not all FBO's carry it if needed on the road.  I can't say the same thing for Exxon Elite.  

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Aeroshell 100+ in the summertime and Phillips 66 X/C in the winter. I've never used Exxon in either of my airplanes.

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39 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Is Exxon planning to release (or HAS released) anything similar to it?  This is all I've used, and has worked extremely well.

The Exxon rep was silent on a replacement product.  He didn't know.  All he could really tell me was in his computer it was showing "Pending Obsolete" and once their inventory is gone, that's it.  

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Yea, I'm getting the same thing on the phone w/them now.  This is crap.  The guy I'm talking to is giving me to a manager who will apparently help me understand what's going on.  Sounds like another business decision...

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10 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Aeroshell 100+ in the summertime and Phillips 66 X/C in the winter. I've never used Exxon in either of my airplanes.

Almost the same here.  I use Aeroshell W100 (SAE 50) in the hot months and Phillips X/C 20W50 in the winter.

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2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Aeroshell 100+ in the summertime and Phillips 66 X/C in the winter. I've never used Exxon in either of my airplanes.

@gsxrpilot  Curious about your reasoning to not use AeroShell 20-50 vs the Phillips.  I have owned 6 planes in the last 20 years and this Mooney Bravo I have now is the first one with Phillips X/C used.  Never really thought about another brand beside Aeroshell before this plane.  Had thought about changing back but have heard don't change types once an engine is broke in.  Not questioning or debating, just curious about others thoughts.

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aeroshell 20w-50 here but after reading the blackstone report, which basically  said 

exxon elite MIght be the best but that it didn't really matter, i'm probably going to use whatever is most convenient from now on

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3 hours ago, Mooney_Allegro said:

takair,

Continental Motors does NOT recommend using ANY additives, and I don't use any additives to any oils I've ever used.  (I've only used Exxon Elite in the past).   I've flown with many flight students that have used "Marvel Mystery oil" in their engines and they swear by it, but I can't comment on that, as I'm in no way an expert on oils.  

I understand that Continental recommending Phillips XC also has to do with the starter adaptor on Continentals slipping with the semi-synthetic Exxon.,

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From what I've heard the starter adapters don't do very well with synthetic based oil and cause them to start slipping, hence the reason nearly all aircraft's are using TCM variants of the 550 use Phillips e.g. Ovation, Acclaim, Cessna 350's 400's TTX, SR22, bonanza.

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5 hours ago, Niko182 said:

From what I've heard the starter adapters don't do very well with synthetic based oil and cause them to start slipping, hence the reason nearly all aircraft's are using TCM variants of the 550 use Phillips e.g. Ovation, Acclaim, Cessna 350's 400's TTX, SR22, bonanza.

I replaced my starter-adaptor last year due to slipping.  Perhaps it was due to the Exxon Elite.  The head of maintenance with Henry Weber Aircraft in Lancaster, PA (MSC) advised against using Exxon Elite because he said it was too slippery of an oil and other more technical reasons that I cannot remember now.   I believe that was one of the MSC's that did not stock that brand of oil.  Dorn Clare from Henry Weber also advised me years ago, that he rarely sees that brand of oil in use.   Dorn has retired now.  He was like an encyclopedia of aviation maintenance knowledge.   He and his shop were definitely one of the best.  

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1 hour ago, Mooney_Allegro said:

I replaced my starter-adaptor last year due to slipping.  Perhaps it was due to the Exxon Elite.  The head of maintenance with Henry Weber Aircraft in Lancaster, PA (MSC) advised against using Exxon Elite because he said it was too slippery of an oil and other more technical reasons that I cannot remember now.   I believe that was one of the MSC's that did not stock that brand of oil.  Dorn Clare from Henry Weber also advised me years ago, that he rarely sees that brand of oil in use.   Dorn has retired now.  He was like an encyclopedia of aviation maintenance knowledge.   He and his shop were definitely one of the best.  

I did the same. I used to run aeroshell 15w50, but after my clutch died 3 months ago i decided to research it and found out about the synthetic side effect. I run phillips 20w50 and keep 3 quarts backup but practically every shop supplies it. Im happy so far with the results.

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I use AeroShell 100W plus CamGuard year round. (I keep the engine warm in the winter with a small ceramic heater and a clothes dryer hose stuck into the cowl flap opening.)

Mike Busch, and perhaps John Deakin prefer mineral oils, not synthetics or blends of synthetics. 

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19 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Aeroshell 100+ in the summertime and Phillips 66 X/C in the winter. I've never used Exxon in either of my airplanes.

Interesting combo of oils. Anyone seen the shell demo of cold flow tests at Oshkosh? I was surprised how slow the XC oil was below freezing. The synthetic oil issue with the clutch in continentals is a good enough for me not to use the synthetics.

-Matt

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I've heard the semi-synthetic Aeroshell 15W50 was bad for the Continental starter adapters causing them to slip. But, I ran a couple IO-520's past TBO with no starter problem, or any problem.  One IO-550, a factory reman was crap and I replaced 8 cylinders (worn exhaust valve guides) trying to get it to 1500 hours, never a starter problem.  An IO-550 Superior overhaul to 1200 hours when I sold it, never a starter problem.  All on Aeroshell 15W50.  The Bo I am flying now, about 300 hours SMOH, Aeroshell 100W, starter slipped during a hot start a couple weeks ago.  I suspect something more than slippery oil is going on with CM's starter adapter.

 

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Speaking with an OHer at KOSH... they overhaul engine parts like the starter adaptor....

They were discussing the effects of oil additives and the adaptor... apparently what they were seeing is the normal wear of the part occurs... but the additive makes the end of the line come slightly sooner.  

If you have been using the additive all along, it is not very noticeable...

If you start using additive when there has been a long part of the life used up already... the clutch slips as if there was wear caused by the additive...

Fly often...

Skip the additives...

or don’t fly as often, use the additives...

That was an interesting conversation.  Wish I could remember who the company was.... they had a table of parts... first time I had seen a starter adaptor clutch(?) so I stopped to talk.   :)

The interesting part of the conversation... we have parts that wear, and there are people that OH these things for a living....

Might have been these guys...

http://www.aircraft-specialties.com/continental-starter-adapters/

Without MS, I would never had known I had one of these... the time I would have found out about it, would have been... the first time I had to change oil brands unexpectedly somewhere.... :)

Best regards,

-a-

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I use Exxon Elite in my Lycoming and am a believer in not changing oil brand or viscosites in an engine. Mine is quite happy with this oil so I suppose I should get more while I still can. 

David

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I’m glad I ordered 4 cases of Exxon a couple months ago.  I guess I have plenty of time to figure out what I will do next. 

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On 1/11/2019 at 2:56 PM, Mooney_Allegro said:

I spoke to Exxon today and was told that it's being discontinued.  The reps words were, "PENDING OBSOLETE"  Aircraft Spruce has already discontinued it.  You can still help them get rid of their old inventory, as it's still available from retailers, but will not be replenished.  

I knew something was wrong back in July 2018 when Elite Etc.com (distributor) didn't offer an Oshkosh Discount.  I always stocked up on Exxon Elite during Oshkosh and Sun 'n Fun for the last 15 years.  After I found out they didn't offer a discount, I switched immediately to Phillips 66 X/C 20W-50 after doing some research.   The switch was also motivated by speaking to Mooney mechanics at MSC's, including Continental Motors that advised me that semi-synthetic is not as good as oils such as Phillips 66 X/C (blue container).   Continental Motors (at the factory) uses Phillips 66 X/C as their oil of choice.   Same thing with Cirrus at their factory.  

I also spoke with RAM aircraft at EAA Oshkosh, who overhauls engines.  Here's what they say, "Most important to RAM is that the oil be MINERAL BASED.  RAM recommends a multi-viscosity ashless dispersant mineral based oil such as Phillips 66 X/C 20W-50.  (RAM service history records indicate that Mineral Based AD oils perform significantly better than synthetic and semi-synthetic oils). 

I apologize if this was covered in a previous post.

 

-David 

 

 

who did you talk to at Exxon to get that info? been trying to get confirmation but no one seems to know about it. I can confirm Spruce, chief and several others no longer have it available but my local distributor and several others i called know nothing about it.

Brian  

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33 minutes ago, orionflt said:

who did you talk to at Exxon to get that info? been trying to get confirmation but no one seems to know about it. I can confirm Spruce, chief and several others no longer have it available but my local distributor and several others i called know nothing about it.

Brian  

I cannot confirm the name of the tech I spoke with, as I didn't write down his name.   I called Exxon Mobil Lubricants Technical Help Desk (troubleshoot customer questions and concerns) at 12:49pm Pacific time on 11 Jan 2019.    The phone number I called for the Technical Help Desk was 718-354-1392.   He said Exxon Elite 20W-50 is "Pending Obsolete" in his computer system.  He said once the inventory is gone, it will no longer be available, as it's not being produced.  

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Wasn’t it Aviation consumer that rated Elite pretty low and they were able to show corrosion in their test lab well before others. Exxon spent some time trying to defend the results but never had a direct answer as I recall. 

-Robert

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