nathan lively

Questions about M20F and Mooney's in general

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2 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

If you mean it has a GTX330 transponder and a GNS530 but the non WAAS version... and that's a good thing?

Give me just a minute... I've got a list around here somewhere...

Doesn't Nathan live somewhere in / near ADSB-required airspace? That means upgrade the 330 to 330ES and add a WAAS source. Or grab a Uavionics light, a much cheaper option when they are approved for certified planes. 

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12 minutes ago, nathan lively said:

I prefer the cheaper acquisition cost on a good aircraft. Just my $0.02

The aircraft also has a 330 and 530 no WAAS which is a nice bonus from my perspective. 

That's true, but just remember the rubric that it is almost always cheaper to have a plane upgraded on someone else's dime than to upgrade it yourself.

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Just now, Hank said:

Doesn't Nathan live somewhere in / near ADSB-required airspace? That means upgrade the 330 to 330ES and add a WAAS source. Or grab a Uavionics light, a much cheaper option when they are approved for certified planes. 

Uavionics light was always my plan as they are now approved for certified aircraft :) 

Would use a portable ADSB in is my preferred source as its easy to upgrade. 

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1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

I've run the numbers and seen it first hand. 

It's a nice bird but no faster (at least in my experience). It's thirstier. It has about 50lbs on me in useful but that is eaten up by fuel.

I’ve flown one from Erie PA to Leesburg Florida  on 55 gallons.

Clarence

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4 hours ago, steingar said:

I don't like the sound of a 46.5 AMU F.  Not at all.  Likely something hinky.  Hinky in Mooneys can get expensive fast.  Might be able to save some coin buying a G.  They've the stretched body of an F, but the engine of a C.  They're about 10 knots slower than other Mooneys and have a somewhat diminished payload.

You want cheap, good and fast.  Pick two.

I can't off the top of my head think of a true 4 person airplane you can get for that money that won't be a wreck.

now you are making me sad.  My little F was only 31.5.  I put another (Im sure my wife can tell you) in it but it flew day VFR no problem for 31.5.  This was a few years ago.  I think Im doing my 3rd annual this month.

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4 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I have flown at near gross many times.  Is there something unique about your conversion?  My F would take four 180lb adults and 80lbs of baggage 500NM with an hour of reserves. It never needs to though because I'm not really into aerial sausage parties or women that out way me.

I’m pretty sure aerial sausage party is the name of the maneuver that’s required to get four adults through the door of a Mooney. 

I only have 850 useful load with the conversion.  I’ve loaded the F full and tried to climb out of Vegas on at 95F day... not something that I would want to do on a grass strip with obstacles. 

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2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Then there's @KLRDMD who probably doesn't do anything without an eye toward the resale value.

Not necessarily resale value, per se but what can I sell it for and how easily ? I've been very concerned about resale on some airplanes I've bought but very surprisingly even those airplanes have sold fairly easily.  It can be complicated, but you have to buy an airplane right. That gives you options. Having my 16th airplane arrive this weekend, in 17 years . . .  I have some experience in this area.

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39 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

Having my 16th airplane arrive this weekend, in 17 years . . . 

Already? That was fast . . . Gonna keep the Baron too?

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53 minutes ago, SantosDumont said:

I’m pretty sure aerial sausage party is the name of the maneuver that’s required to get four adults through the door of a Mooney. 

I only have 850 useful load with the conversion.  I’ve loaded the F full and tried to climb out of Vegas on at 95F day... not something that I would want to do on a grass strip with obstacles. 

 I’m sorry you feel like you bought the wrong plane. I think that A36’s are fine machines. I simply don’t need the space or the useful load of the vintage A36 for my family and 98% of the flying we do (the new Bonanzas have dismal UL for the fuel burn). I don’t think you’d find the Bonanza to be much happier at gross on a hot day. This is the plight of most of the NA piston fleet.  I am surprised the conversion added that much weight to your F. There must have been additional factors. Your F is 209lbs heavier than my F.  That’s more than filling the tanks half way. I can imagine why that’s an issue. Your machine appears to be very well equipped. Is the weight just from the STC’d engine installation and avionics?

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8 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

 I’m sorry you feel like you bought the wrong plane. I think that A36’s are fine machines. I simply don’t need the space or the useful load of the vintage A36 for my family and 98% of the flying we do (the new Bonanzas have dismal UL for the fuel burn). I don’t think you’d find the Bonanza to be much happier at gross on a hot day. This is the plight of most of the NA piston fleet.  I am surprised the conversion added that much weight to your F. There must have been additional factors. Your F is 209lbs heavier than my F.  That’s more than filling the tanks half way. I can imagine why that’s an issue. Your machine appears to be very well equipped. Is the weight just from the STC’d engine installation and avionics?

I don’t think I bought the wrong plane. I just didn’t know what I didn’t know. I hadn’t defined my mission yet. It’s been a great plane for solo XC which is 95% of my mission.  I just can’t fit the whole family in there.  An A36 would do 100% of my mission and the kiddos would be a lot less cramped. I’ve put over 400 hours on the plane and the experience has been worth every penny.  I wasnt experenced enough to have the desire to put my family in the plane before I flew the F everywhere.

Honestly if I could find an A36 to partner in I’d buy a share in it and keep the F.  Could also live with a share in a 210, but you know, gotta low wing master race.   

My comment about performance was aimed at OPs mission of flying 4 adults out of a grass strip. 

$40k doesnt buy much F though. It’s gonna cost $100k to get that $40k F to what a $65k F would be. 

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So Nathan PM'd me the aircraft he's examining.  I have to say, I am very, very impressed.  Mid-time engine, a nice set of instruments for IFR flight, and its 2020 compliant.  They don't say anything about an autopilot, but then again they don't say the PC is broken either.  Heck, put in a good autopilot and you might even get your money back out.  Were it me I'd jump on that hard.  I'd just make certain I had the mother of all pre buy inspections.  That may be quite the jewel, I just watched the fastest E I've ever seen with good instrumentation, a good autopilot, and a brand new interior sell for 55K.

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10 hours ago, Hank said:

Already? That was fast . . . Gonna keep the Baron too?

Nope. It will have been one year to the day that I owned the Baron.

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13 hours ago, TheTurtle said:

now you are making me sad.  My little F was only 31.5.  I put another (Im sure my wife can tell you) in it but it flew day VFR no problem for 31.5.  This was a few years ago.  I think Im doing my 3rd annual this month.

I went the same direction and bought a cheap F.  I'm 1.5 years into ownership, completed 2 annuals, repaired a lot of stuff, upgraded some stuff, and still don't have $46.5 in the plane.  I'll never have the glass panels and high end gizmo's that the upper end planes have, but it gets me from point A to B fast and efficiently!  Plus, the lower operating cost (compared to renting) has allowed me to build hours at about 3 times the rate I was before I bought her.

Edited by skydvrboy
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So a buddy of mine put in contact with a M20C Ranger owner. He is going to show me around the plane and I'll see if I am in fact comfortable in the airplane. If all goes well and the plane is still on the market tomorrow, I'll be putting money down on it. :) 

Thanks for all your help, its greatly appreciated. 

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I bought my first single ownership bird a year ago....     66 m20e....  after my first annual...      I very happy with the manual gear, hyd flaps and over all simplicity of the Mooney....    500 hrs this year. 

So one year in...  short body vs long was a consideration at purchase...   no issue...     Fuel injection vs carb...   still glad it’s FI.      200 vs 180hp ,  got 200. want more...   happy but mo is better.      No auto pilot...   due to $$$ and  down time, ended up with an Accutrac...  its heaven after 8 months of IFR single pilot... No engine monitor....  added one,  improved range...  an safer operations all around.  

Fixes 1st  year...   Two mag rebuilds...    Attitude gyro failed... replaced with a G5 interfaced to existing 430W...   all three tires

other additions,       Added Stratus adsb in...   and now prefer IFR  with two iPads....     

Next is to figure out what 2020 adsb out solution works for me....   and come up with cash for a flight stream 210....   

 

Have fun looking....   then zero in on what you want/need and get serious about finding it....   perfect is hard to find...  darn close can be good place to start...  

Just my expirence FWIW

Edited by asaxet

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1 hour ago, asaxet said:

I bought my first single ownership bird a year ago....     66 m20e....  after my first annual...      I very happy with the manual gear, hyd flaps and over all simplicity of the Mooney....    500 hrs this year. 

So one year in...  short body vs long was a consideration at purchase...   no issue...     Fuel injection vs carb...   still glad it’s FI.      200 vs 180hp ,  got 200. want more...   happy but mo is better.      No auto pilot...   due to $$$ and  down time, ended up with an Accutrac...  its heaven after 8 months of IFR single pilot... No engine monitor....  added one,  improved range...  an safer operations all around.  

Fixes 1st  year...   Two mag rebuilds...    Attitude gyro failed... replaced with a G5 interfaced to existing 430W...   all three tires

other additions,       Added Stratus adsb in...   and now prefer IFR  with two iPads....     

Next is to figure out what 2020 adsb out solution works for me....   and come up with cash for a flight stream 210....   

 

Have fun looking....   then zero in on what you want/need and get serious about finding it....   perfect is hard to find...  darn close can be good place to start...  

Just my expirence FWIW

500 hours is quite impressive!!

Clarence

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38 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

500 hours is quite impressive!!

Clarence

I'll say... and at that rate he will be facing an engine overhaul pretty soon which will make the 2020 compliance and the Flight Stream add on seem like chump change.

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6 hours ago, nathan lively said:

So a buddy of mine put in contact with a M20C Ranger owner. He is going to show me around the plane and I'll see if I am in fact comfortable in the airplane. If all goes well and the plane is still on the market tomorrow, I'll be putting money down on it. :) 

Thanks for all your help, its greatly appreciated. 

What happened with the F?

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18 hours ago, Shadrach said:

 I’m sorry you feel like you bought the wrong plane. I think that A36’s are fine machines. I simply don’t need the space or the useful load of the vintage A36 for my family and 98% of the flying we do (the new Bonanzas have dismal UL for the fuel burn). I don’t think you’d find the Bonanza to be much happier at gross on a hot day. This is the plight of most of the NA piston fleet.  I am surprised the conversion added that much weight to your F. There must have been additional factors. Your F is 209lbs heavier than my F.  That’s more than filling the tanks half way. I can imagine why that’s an issue. Your machine appears to be very well equipped. Is the weight just from the STC’d engine installation and avionics?

You guys making me jealous, my 68F useful load is “only” 1017lbs.  3 blade prop adds a little but otherwise fairly stock.  Wonder how you get more UL?

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19 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

What happened with the F?

I think he meant that if he fits in the C, he'll put money down on the F. @nathan lively Is this correct?  If the plane you are talking about is the one listed on tradeaplane, it looks like a pretty good deal... if you can live with those ugly green colors. ;)  That said, as others have mentioned, get an extensive pre-buy done.  Good luck whatever you decide.

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6 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Wonder how you get more UL?

  • Glass panel - remove vacuum pump
  • Remove the rear seats
  • Get a ferry permit
  • Pilot - dieting to lose weight
  • Sell the plane and get a bigger one

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26 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:
  • Glass panel - remove vacuum pump
  • Remove the rear seats
  • Get a ferry permit
  • Pilot - dieting to lose weight
  • Sell the plane and get a bigger one

A complete panel overhaul and a GEN/alternator swap would get me very close to 1100lbs.  Dropping some of this baby weight would help too!:wacko:

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42 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:
  • Glass panel - remove vacuum pump
  • Remove the rear seats
  • Get a ferry permit
  • Pilot - dieting to lose weight
  • Sell the plane and get a bigger one

Well yeah.  I need to pull the G5 trigger and ditch the vac, but otherwise, I was just wondering how other F models ended up with ~50lbs more UL?  Maybe my electric gear vs J bar is a couple lbs?

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Just now, Ragsf15e said:

Maybe my electric gear vs J bar is a couple lbs?

I would guess that would be more than a couple of lbs.

 

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1 hour ago, skydvrboy said:

I think he meant that if he fits in the C, he'll put money down on the F. @nathan lively Is this correct?  If the plane you are talking about is the one listed on tradeaplane, it looks like a pretty good deal... if you can live with those ugly green colors. ;)  That said, as others have mentioned, get an extensive pre-buy done.  Good luck whatever you decide.

That is correct, I could have worded that better....

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