Joe Zuffoletto

Need a tough problem solved? Call the Marines!

Recommended Posts

*Members that donate $10 or more do not see advertisements*

My Marine day’s are long gone, but if you want it done call in the USMC, go Corp.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

cool :)

maybe they will have some leftover concrete and can come and pave the grass strip I fly out of. 

It just reopened it was closed for a week due to wet conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, thinwing said:

Hope they get rid of hump while they are at it....

“What hump”....... Young Frankenstein! :rolleyes:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

I wonder what the new higher fees will be?  

Why would the fees go up? The city / county / island / state aren't paying the Marines . . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Hank said:

Why would the fees go up? The city / county / island / state aren't paying the Marines . . . .

You really do not understand California.  Everyone paid the fees and the mx on their props even though it was one of the worst runways on the west coast.  Now it will be brand new, don't think the city or state does not think they can charge a premium for it.  Does not matter who paid for it they know pilots will want to go just to see and will pay,,,, I can see landing fees going to 40 bucks......and don't forget the raping for the ride to Avalon.

How else can the state pay for the Sanctuary costs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

You really do not understand California.  Everyone paid the fees and the mx on their props even though it was one of the worst runways on the west coast.  Now it will be brand new, don't think the city or state does not think they can charge a premium for it.  Does not matter who paid for it they know pilots will want to go just to see and will pay,,,, I can see landing fees going to 40 bucks......and don't forget the raping for the ride to Avalon.

How else can the state pay for the Sanctuary costs?

You really do not understand Catalina.  ;)  AVX is a private airport open to the public that is owned and managed by a non-profit private land trust called the Catalina Island Conservancy.  The $25 landing fee is charged and collected by the conservancy.  You can also receive unlimited landings with an annual $125 conservancy membership.  We can criticize how the Conservancy uses or doesn't use that money, but it's not a fee imposed by any city or the State of California.

Edited by ZuluZulu
adding emoji, which is the best reason for editing
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm wondering how many crashes there will be when it opens with pilots that have never been there and haven't done their homework on the differences between landing there and a runway that isn't at the end of a plateau. I know all the local places that rent require a checkout to fly one of their planes there, but I'm sure there will be a number of pilots who will be making the trip for the first time in their planes, including those that don't fly very often at all. I see so many that like to drag it in low and from what I have read and been told that causes a lot of problems at Catalina. 

I have not been myself because of the poor runway conditions but am looking forward to going. I will be paying very close attention to the winds and also my approach to make sure I don't end up a part of the pieces of planes out there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I'm wondering how many crashes there will be when it opens with pilots that have never been there and haven't done their homework on the differences between landing there and a runway that isn't at the end of a plateau. I know all the local places that rent require a checkout to fly one of their planes there, but I'm sure there will be a number of pilots who will be making the trip for the first time in their planes, including those that don't fly very often at all. I see so many that like to drag it in low and from what I have read and been told that causes a lot of problems at Catalina. 

I have not been myself because of the poor runway conditions but am looking forward to going. I will be paying very close attention to the winds and also my approach to make sure I don't end up a part of the pieces of planes out there. 

That's a really good point.  Hopefully anyone who decides to visit takes the time to visit the Conservancy's website, which covers all of the pertinent information, including the recommended arrival procedure, and it also warns about downdrafts on short final in addition to the sloped surface.

Still though, the last time I went to Catalina before the closure, somebody broadcast on his first call that he was making straight in from John Wayne despite three other airplanes operating in the area.  If he'd read the website first, he'd know straight-ins are discouraged and must yield to aircraft flying the pattern.

You'll really enjoy it once you get to go.  Before I departed I created a custom waypoint for Two Harbors in my nav.  From there it's a left turn toward the airport, which puts you on a 45 to join the downwind for right traffic to 22.  Made things pretty easy.  And for anyone coming from the north, if you pick up flight following out of the LA Special Flight Rules area, you can occasionally get a clearance into the Bravo south of Torrance, giving you an earlier climb to a more comfortable altitude for the water crossing.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wind and Mesas make for some challenging final approaches....

Best to be in the know, regarding the details.  Downdrafts show up in conversations around here from time to time...

Best regards,

-a-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always wanted to land there.  Looking forward to the new runway.  Does anyone if camping is allowed at the airport.  When I was a kid I attended a boy scout camp on Catalina Island.  Rather than doing merit badges at the camp my friends and I signed up to canoe around the island.  It took us 5 days and 52 miles if I remember correctly.  We survived on abalone that we skinned dived for and pop tarts.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kerry said:

I've always wanted to land there.  Looking forward to the new runway.  Does anyone if camping is allowed at the airport.  When I was a kid I attended a boy scout camp on Catalina Island.  Rather than doing merit badges at the camp my friends and I signed up to canoe around the island.  It took us 5 days and 52 miles if I remember correctly.  We survived on abalone that we skinned dived for and pop tarts.  

Camping at the airport itself is only available to Aero Club members (the ones who pay for a membership to get unlimited landings).  I believe the camping area is at the end of RWY 04, and there are a couple notes on the website that Aero Club members should “ask about underwing parking.”  Club members also get 50% off the island’s other camping site fees.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, kerry said:

If you pay $125/year you get unlimited landings and camping?

It might be $150, there are two different prices on the website.  But yes on unlimited landings.  Camping is half-off the other campsites; I don’t know how much it costs, if any, to camp at the airport or under your wing.  But now I want to find out...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/11/2019 at 6:32 PM, ZuluZulu said:

You really do not understand Catalina.  ;)  AVX is a private airport open to the public that is owned and managed by a non-profit private land trust called the Catalina Island Conservancy.  The $25 landing fee is charged and collected by the conservancy.  You can also receive unlimited landings with an annual $125 conservancy membership.  We can criticize how the Conservancy uses or doesn't use that money, but it's not a fee imposed by any city or the State of California.

It was the state thru Cal Trans Aernautical Dept that finally lowered the boom on the conservancy with threat of airport closure.Cal Trans operates 2 beech bonanzas (hangar neighbors)who job is to fly arround and land at all public and private airports.(nice job,)Cal Trans has a pretty big enforcement stick as they can deny operating permit,anyway one of the A36 s returned with prop damage from fod So they gave conservancy an ultimatum...fix or close runway.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m glad they finally did something. The conservancy has repeatedly used a zillion excuses to collect fees there. It is considered or was a critical airport for a variety of reasons...for a while there was a man who would talk on the radio but it was treated as a Unicom...his job was to collect fees for his own paycheck..pretty lame, much like paying for a valet in a large open lot. I decided against flying to Catalina as a result many times. The lies about how and why the money was spent discouraged many. I find it amusing that my beloved corps finally fixed the runway...

The fee is still a pain. I may reconsider after repairs...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, glbtrottr said:

I’m glad they finally did something. The conservancy has repeatedly used a zillion excuses to collect fees there. It is considered or was a critical airport for a variety of reasons...for a while there was a man who would talk on the radio but it was treated as a Unicom...his job was to collect fees for his own paycheck..pretty lame, much like paying for a valet in a large open lot. I decided against flying to Catalina as a result many times. The lies about how and why the money was spent discouraged many. I find it amusing that my beloved corps finally fixed the runway...

The fee is still a pain. I may reconsider after repairs...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There was still a guy on the Unicom last time I went, and it was still his job to collect fees.  I hope they use some of the money to repair the taxiway after four months of heavy supply traffic used it while the runway was closed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm...I am dubious anything will change.  The unicom guy and many others said the money was for runway improvements.  Did they ever do it?  No, not until they were forced to.  If anything, someone did them a solid by having the Corps repair the runway for them - I wish they had been made to pay from all the fees they had collected over the years. 

The benefit is for the conservancy which isn't poor, not pilots in general; while we may be able to enjoy a nicer runway, government absorbed a substantial amount of the cost, and the conservancy will still charge a ridiculous $25 per landing because the Joe that manages the unicom is there to get his piece - no real value to the pilot, since he doesn't have a radar, isn't providing separation or tower services - he's a bump on a log.  I remember having spoken to the Aeronautics Bureau and caltrans about it in the past - we laughed about the situation with discomfort.  Sad that one situation can screw it up for the public at large; if the fee was reduced or eliminated overall, they could grow this as a destination.  It isn't about the money, but rather the principle of it all.  This notion that you have to "pay" money to land at some public airports when our taxes have already paid for the infrastructure and our taxes pay for the upkeep is...ridiculous, and will invite a European approach to continued unsubstantiated costing by slowly boiling the frog.  If you ever take a moment to fly in European airspace where everytime you're in the system you have to pay, from terminal to flight plan to approach to landing and each of those create a dent in your wallet, you'll know what I'm talking about...it all starts with places like Catalina, and the privatization of the municipal airport.  The conservancy was supposed to be a not-for-profit; I wonder about that as a reality. 

The previous CEO of this small organization / non profit brought home a tasty $326k a year (wowzers!)  - pretty healthy salary for such humble work.  

https://www.catalinaconservancy.org/userfiles/files/Santa Catalina Island Conservancy Public Disclosure copy.pdf

Perhaps if the organization was managed a little more humbly, we would have a nice airport to land in without the $25 per landing, fostering more interest in the conservancy. 

As an example, it wasn't that long ago that a bunch of well meaning, old timers from Hawthorne Airport in California saved it from Closure.  Fast forward to today, now you're looking at $600+ for a T-hangar per month - nothing special and exhorbitant price, whereas previosly it was in the $200/300 range when "managed" by the city.  Curiously, the staff that managed it prior is still there, but now a private organization "rents" the whole airport, and charges a substantial uplift as a result.  The staff formerly charged with managing the airport now service the one renter they have for $450k a year or so.  Business profits, the citizen pays.  Pretty lame. 

In contrast, the County of Ventura nearby refuses to allow subleasing; Camarillo / Oxnard lease the same T-Hangar for a whopping $246;  Hangars that were originally purchased for about $10k by some with a ground lease are now selling for $50/60/70k and treated as real estate while on a month-to-month lease.  There is some conflict as to how that will live going forward as the airports are trying to purchase those hangars back.  Privatization at a municipal airport does little but substantially raise the cost of aviation for all without a substantial upside except for the privateer in this case. 

Catalina is a great destination; unfortunately the devil is in the details, and it all starts with one unacceptable fee without any tangible benefit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

funny you say that as its the same at john wayne. john wayne is partly privatized and party gov owned. the private hangars rent out for about 1000 to 6000 for a hangar, ranging from your basic T-hangar to the larger hangers for light jets. the government owned hangers rent for $193. I thought it was a mistake at first until I talked to the manager who runs the tiedowns, and hangars. sadly the waitlist for those hangars are gigantic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

American Airports caused this at a few local fields. At Hawthorne it is “advanced air/jet center/Main Street/surf air/whatever Levi chooses to call himself. The Van Nuys Prop Park is the same crap. Because the local pilot groups didn’t organize quickly and well enough, privatization did it all in. The same thing happened in Carlsbad. While Santa Monica residents claimed to be all up in arms about the pollution, etc...what made it attractive for the airport and local government was the nice mint that Snapchat was willing to pay to take over most buildings to have a cool startup working space, and now Santa Monica will shut down. Santa Paula, Camarillo are still relatively uncorrupted for now...but give it time.

It all starts with an unchecked manager who thinks he knows better when he’s not being watched, a few favors here and there, and boom- sucks for all. The guy at Hawthorne ended up at Big Bear and guess what is happening there now...

Really tragic...greed at the expense of the public sucks for all. I hope Camarillo doesn’t head in that direction after the most recent director committed suicide. John Wayne is a far cry from what it used to be.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now