M20C Autopilot - Looking for a more recent discussion on my options

[BrettKS]

My '65 M20C currently only has Mooney PC installed. I've done a bit of reading on MooneySpace (most threads are now dated) and the internet in general and below is the summary of what I've found as far as options for the C model. Current setup = GTN 750 with a standard six pack. Have a glideslope and VOR, the rest are steam gauges. No autopilot installed, just PC. I'm yet to be instrument rated but plan to do this within the next year and hope to get an AP installed prior to starting so that I can get familiar with it during training. I don't plan to regularly fly "hard IFR" but will be in an area with frequently low ceilings that I'd like to occasionally shoot an approach, take small cross country trips. I think I'm just looking for a two axis autopilot that will hold my altitude and follow my GTN's instructions for heading. Unless it's a similar cost, I don't think I'll need to have the AP be coupled to an approach and have vertical guidance (I think this is "coupled approach"?). Looking for an economic option as a priority.

 

STEC: Majority of their models are STCd for the M20C. Seems like I'm looking at starting around $20k installed for a two axis with GPS steering. 3100 coming soon, will cost around $20k + install for 2-axis, $25k + install for 3 axis.

Brittain Autopilots: Accutrac models -- compatible, but seem to have limited availability and company's future appears to be in question. I have emailed/called with no replies for several weeks. Probably not a good option to go without a current autopilot installed.

Garmin: GFC possibly an option in the future, but the C model is not on their list as one that will have STC in the near future.

Century: Appears to be older autopilot systems. Only Century I appears to be compatible with the M20C. It's unclear to me whether this will be fully compatible with my current avionics and be able to do what I need/want. Appears to be not as favorable compared to STEC.

 

Are there any other options I'm missing? Any recommendations specific to my mission?

[DXB]

I understand your situation as mine was very similar a few years ago.  I put in a dSTEC-30 + Aspen pfd + GTN650 in my previously very basic C model panel and then got my IR last year - so far I am delighted with the functionality this setup offers for instrument flying. 

However the STECs make no sense anymore except the 3100, which is still $$$$$ as you note.  

I bet you  end up going with a very economical Trutrak autopilot (~7000 installed! Check out their website - they will be STC'd for our planes very soon), along with either a G5 or Aspen, with which it integrates.  At least that's what I'd do if pursuing the install now- it would have saved a ton of money over the STEC-30, which is fairly modern but still a primitive rate-based unit and less full featured than the Trutrak.  I may even swap to a Trutrak eventually.

Also BTW @BrettKS you live in the town I grew up in  -  let me know if you need any help, and good luck with your IR - you will love having it!

[Hector]

I have a Brittain accutrack that works but I know its days are numbered and I want more capability. For my C I have decided Trutrak is the answer. $7500 including installation and it does enough for what I need. It will follow your GPS, hold altitude, and will even shoot a coupled GPS approach but only legal down to 700 AGL (it will continue flying the approach all the way to the numbers but it is not certified for that). The AP will soon be available for our C models and it’s the right balance in cost and what I need.


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[carusoam]

Find the thread with Trio in it...

That makes for an interesting read...

Best regards,

-a-

[MikeOH]

Very happy with my STEC-30, alt hold, and GPSS.  However, the plane already had it installed.

[0TreeLemur]

10 hours ago, Hector said:

I have a Brittain accutrack that works but I know its days are numbered and I want more capability. For my C I have decided Trutrak is the answer. $7500 including installation and it does enough for what I need. It will follow your GPS, hold altitude, and will even shoot a coupled GPS approach but only legal down to 700 AGL (it will continue flying the approach all the way to the numbers but it is not certified for that). The AP will soon be available for our C models and it’s the right balance in cost and what I need.


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Brittain has been acquired by a new owner so the Accutrak is not dead yet.

Not clear to me why you want an autopilot that will fly an approach- isn't that the pilot's job?  

[steingar]

If it ain't broke, why fix it?  A working wing leveler will reduce your workload in IMC.  No it won't follow a heading or fly and approach for you.  But if you keep the wings level the airplane should follow the course you set.  Says me want until you're flying IFR (when you better know your mission and your needs) to worry about a new AP, or until the fool thing breaks.

Edited January 7, 2019 by steingar

[salty]

3 hours ago, steingar said:

If it ain't broke, why fix it?  A working wing leveler will reduce your workload in IMC.  No it won't follow a heading or fly and approach for you.  But if you keep the wings level the airplane should follow the course you set.  Says me want until you're flying IFR (when you better know your mission and your needs) to worry about a new AP, or until the fool thing breaks.

My wing leveler won’t hold a course very long. It always turns very slowly one way or the other. 

[wcb]

+1 on looking at Trutrack and it looks like Trio maybe pulling the plug.  I was hoping Trutrak, Trio and Garmin would all be good alternatives.

[Marauder]

My wing leveler won’t hold a course very long. It always turns very slowly one way or the other. 

That was my experience with my wing leveler as well. I was always doing something to keep it running well enough to trust for more than a minute or two.


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[carusoam]

49 minutes ago, wcb said:

... it looks like Trio maybe pulling the plug....

See latest related to Trio, the STCGroup, and Mooneys...

 

Oops, my bad... STC Group flip flops on decision to support Mooneys and Trio... somewhere around post 35...

 

Best regards,

-a-

[M20C]

Where are the retrofit autopilot servos located?

[Yetti]

5 hours ago, M20C said:

Where are the retrofit autopilot servos located?

in the wings and tail.  replace the vacuum servos of the Brittain System.  

Auto Pilot will be $750 dollars to add on to the Dynon Skyview system.   

My friend with the Skyview in the Baron had to get an engineer involved because the new Servo bracket was the same as the old bracket, but the hole needed to be moved an inch or so.....

 

[David Lloyd]

Speaking of Skyview, for the money spent for some of the other autopilots you could also have a glass display.  But it may be a year before that happens.

[Niko182]

22 minutes ago, David Lloyd said:

Speaking of Skyview, for the money spent for some of the other autopilots you could also have a glass display.  But it may be a couple years before that happens.

 

[MIm20c]

On 1/6/2019 at 4:08 PM, BrettKS said:

My '65 M20C currently only has Mooney PC installed. I've done a bit of reading on MooneySpace (most threads are now dated) and the internet in general and below is the summary of what I've found as far as options for the C model. Current setup = GTN 750 with a standard six pack. Have a glideslope and VOR, the rest are steam gauges. No autopilot installed, just PC. I'm yet to be instrument rated but plan to do this within the next year and hope to get an AP installed prior to starting so that I can get familiar with it during training. I don't plan to regularly fly "hard IFR" but will be in an area with frequently low ceilings that I'd like to occasionally shoot an approach, take small cross country trips. I think I'm just looking for a two axis autopilot that will hold my altitude and follow my GTN's instructions for heading. Unless it's a similar cost, I don't think I'll need to have the AP be coupled to an approach and have vertical guidance (I think this is "coupled approach"?). Looking for an economic option as a priority. 

IMO your mission requirement has Trutrak written all over it.  You will spend 80% as much on an old cobbled together stec system that isn’t nearly as capable. The other new options will cost you twice as much unless they require a glass system that will increase the cost 3.5-4x. 

[Yetti]

2 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

Speaking of Skyview, for the money spent for some of the other autopilots you could also have a glass display.  But it may be a year before that happens.

My backup plan is to create an AML off my friend's STC...

[MBDiagMan]

I am looking at Trutrak if it ever gets its Mooney certification.  That said, if I had an operational wingleveler I would be a happy camper and could plan on keeping that $7K in my pocket until it failed.

[BrettKS]

8 hours ago, MIm20c said:

IMO your mission requirement has Trutrak written all over it.  You will spend 80% as much on an old cobbled together stec system that isn’t nearly as capable. The other new options will cost you twice as much unless they require a glass system that will increase the cost 3.5-4x. 

Yeah, looked into it over the last few weeks and I agree with you. On the wait list, we'll see how long it takes!