Safe ice melter?

[xcrmckenna]

Are there any non corrosive ice melters out there safe around our planes? Or maybe home remedies you use?

 

I use a weed burner to melt the ice and lay down plastic to protect from the snow fall on my ramp. But wish there was an easier way to beat the hard winter airport operations. Besides moving south.....

 

 

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[exM20K]

Our local airport uses beet juice.  The town has a big press and does the streets w/ it, too.

Pro-tip: TKS fluid will lower the coefficient of friction of ice as it sits uselessly on top.

[jaylw314]

10 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

 

Are there any non corrosive ice melters out there safe around our planes? Or maybe home remedies you use?

 

I use a weed burner to melt the ice and lay down plastic to protect from the snow fall on my ramp. But wish there was an easier way to beat the hard winter airport operations. Besides moving south.....

 

 

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If the temp is up above freezing, you can speed up the process by rinsing the plane with water from a hose.  That'll warm things up faster than warm air.  If you have access to a hot water tap, that would help even faster.  Of course, you also need to be darn sure the air temp is high enough the residual water won't just refreeze.

Somebody suggested using sugar as a de-icer, since it is non-ionic (but that means much less efficient than salt).  Don't know how well it works, and the airport may frown on that and the insect problems that could cause!

[ArtVandelay]

I think canvas covers would be best, protection in winter and summer.

 

 

Tom

 

[xcrmckenna]

Our local airport uses beet juice.  The town has a big press and does the streets w/ it, too.
Pro-tip: TKS fluid will lower the coefficient of friction of ice as it sits uselessly on top.

I thought about tks but thought it was a pretty expensive route. Good to know though.


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[xcrmckenna]

I think canvas covers would be best, protection in winter and summer.
 
 
Tom
 

I agree and is why I lay black plastic on the ramp in front of my hangar. A canvas would be even better.

I’m also needing to thaw the ice on the taxiway in front so I can push the plane back in. When it’s even a little icy it gets pretty comical watching me put the plane away....


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[xcrmckenna]

If the temp is up above freezing, you can speed up the process by rinsing the plane with water from a hose.  That'll warm things up faster than warm air.  If you have access to a hot water tap, that would help even faster.  Of course, you also need to be darn sure the air temp is high enough the residual water won't just refreeze.
Somebody suggested using sugar as a de-icer, since it is non-ionic (but that means much less efficient than salt).  Don't know how well it works, and the airport may frown on that and the insect problems that could cause!

No water this time of year. I might try a little sugar in a spot and see how it works. They have commercial non corrosive ice melt but not sure how it reacts to a plane.


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[steingar]

I have a really really good and utterly foolproof solution to airframe icing, but its kinda expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's called a hangar.  Airplanes being indoors.

[ArtVandelay]

I have a really really good and utterly foolproof solution to airframe icing,
It's called a hangar.  Airplanes being indoors.

In some areas, there is no available space.


Tom

[xcrmckenna]

I have a really really good and utterly foolproof solution to airframe icing, but its kinda expensive.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
It's called a hangar.  Airplanes being indoors.

I’m not needing my airframe de-iced. I wouldn’t be using a weed burner for that .

I am trying to keep the ramp to my hangar and the taxi way right in front of the hangar ramp ice free:)

Just gotta keep waiting on that global warming to heat up some more...


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[carusoam]

1) Sugars come with other sticky buggy problems...

2) freezing point depression depends on the number particles dissolved in the solution... with NaCl, you get 2X the particles you get with sugar. The molecular weight is part of the equation as well.... where the number of particles per ounce matters...

3) anything you spread around the plane has a high chance of getting in and on the plane... salts are bad for promoting corrosion...

4) Visiting Montreal recently... they combat a lot of snow... instead of melting it, often the focus is on improving traction.  A fair amount of sand gets spread on icy surfaces...  improves grip, doesn’t promote corrosion...

5) Spraying TKS on Things is OK, just not on walking surfaces... very slippery.

6) Using water to melt things very often depends on the temperature of the surrounding surfaces.  A high chance of getting it wrong and making the problem worse...

Sand works pretty well... if you get it wrong, it can be swept away.... 

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[mooniac15u]

2 hours ago, xcrmckenna said:

 

Are there any non corrosive ice melters out there safe around our planes? Or maybe home remedies you use?

 

I use a weed burner to melt the ice and lay down plastic to protect from the snow fall on my ramp. But wish there was an easier way to beat the hard winter airport operations. Besides moving south.....

 

 

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The FAA provides pretty specific guidance on what is approved for use on runways and taxiways.  It is covered in AC -150/5200-30D (https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/150-5200-30D.pdf ).  See 4.6 for details.  For solid deicers they only allow "airside urea, sodium formate, and sodium acetate."

In general it is halide salts that are corrosive so they want you to use organic salts instead.

 

 

 

[thinwing]

I think rather than trying to melt ice off the ramp or covering the ramp ,I would use plain everyday cheap sand to increase friction.The tires will pick it up but clearing the tires is a lot easier than clearing your 20x20 ramp.

[thinwing]

Oh ,I see Anthony has beat me to the punch

[xcrmckenna]

1) Sugars come with other sticky buggy problems...
2) freezing point depression depends on the number particles dissolved in the solution... with NaCl, you get 2X the particles you get with sugar. The molecular weight is part of the equation as well.... where the number of particles per ounce matters...
3) anything you spread around the plane has a high chance of getting in and on the plane... salts are bad for promoting corrosion...
4) Visiting Montreal recently... they combat a lot of snow... instead of melting it, often the focus is on improving traction.  A fair amount of sand gets spread on icy surfaces...  improves grip, doesn’t promote corrosion...
5) Spraying TKS on Things is OK, just not on walking surfaces... very slippery.
6) Using water to melt things very often depends on the temperature of the surrounding surfaces.  A high chance of getting it wrong and making the problem worse...
Sand works pretty well... if you get it wrong, it can be swept away.... 
Best regards,
-a-
 
 

I have put down cat litter on the taxiway but I hate to add to the fod for our props. I complain to our Airport manager I get a ding. She wouldn’t let me live it down if she caught me laying more stuff down

It’s freezing and below here for the next month and a half I won’t have to worry about bugs anytime soon

My hangar entrance faces north and the building blocks the sunlight getting to the ramp and half of the taxiway contributing to the ice rink.


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[carusoam]

 

11 minutes ago, thinwing said:

Oh ,I see Anthony has beat me to the punch

It’s good to have the confirmation... 

Cat litter can be made from some pretty fine clay... great for adsorbing moisture, not so good for traction as it gets wet...

in and around the taxi way, stuff doesn’t get sucked up into the prop that much... not like the areas where the plane is stationary and the prop is at elevated rpm... but, Something to keep in mind.

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Charles,

Give a good look at 15U’s recommendation... He is one of MS’s official resident chemists.   

Best regards,

-a-

[EricJ]

29 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

For solid deicers they only allow "airside urea, ..."

Last week I thought I heard one of the local car dealers advertising a "Huge urine sale!"    That would've been perfect for this.

Sadly, it turned out to be a year-end sale.   So disappointing.

[gsxrpilot]

Put a HarborFreight winch on the back wall of your hangar/shed and drag the plane backward into the hangar. It seems the ice might only be causing issues for pushing the plane into he hangar?

[xcrmckenna]

Put a HarborFreight winch on the back wall of your hangar/shed and drag the plane backward into the hangar. It seems the ice might only be causing issues for pushing the plane into he hangar?

That’s pretty much the case. The winch would help but the taxiway is pretty narrow and takes a three point turn getting it out of the hangar on a dry day and back in. There is still some jockeying pushing it around that is needed.


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[steingar]

58 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

I am trying to keep the ramp to my hangar and the taxi way right in front of the hangar ramp ice free:)

Just gotta keep waiting on that global warming to heat up some more...

 

They don't have salt in Bum F*%# West Egypt?

[xcrmckenna]

They don't have salt in Bum F*%# West Egypt?

I am looking for a non corrosive solution.


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[MinneMooney]

I have a friend that uses slip on ice spikes for his boots to get good traction on ice. 

[NJMac]

I am looking for a non corrosive solution.


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Don't use calcium chloride. It ate thru an enclosed trailer we hauled a sidewalk machine in one winter. And trashed the machine too.

This would make a nice tug after you plowed the ramp with it

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[Guest]

Urea 46-0-0 fertilizer works well.

Clarence