Garmin or Aspen EFIS options to work with Century Autopilot

[BrianW]

Hi,

I have a 1979 M20J with steam guages and factory installed Century 41 autopilot.

When the time comes, I'd like to eventually upgrade my attitude indicator and HSI, but the AI and HSI provide output to drive the autopilot.

One EFIS solution may be the Aspen E5 with ACU which can output to legacy autopilots for $5995.

The other EFIS option is to install two Garmin G5 units (one set as AI and the other setup to display HSI).  My preliminary research led me to believe installing the new Garmin GAD29B module provides autopilot legacy output for my autopilot.  The Garmin G5 primary set as AI costs $2149,  the G5 primary set as HSI with the GAD29B costs $3154.  The 3 unit Garmin setup totals $5203.

Is one better or preferrable over the other?

Aspen has cleaner installed look

The Garmins can provide redundency for each other.

Both are well established trusted vendors.

I'm not sure about the installation time and cost for either option.

Its hard to find reviews that compare the Garmin vs Aspen configured to be equivalent (an apple to apple comparison).

I'd like to know the estimated difficulty and installation time for both options.

Cost of owning, maintaining and upgradability is important to me.

Which setup would you choose and why?

Edited December 28, 2018 by BrianW
Typos

[Marauder]

Hi,
I have a 1979 M20J with steam guages and factory installed Century 41 autopilot.
When the time comes, I'd like to eventually upgrade my attitude indicator and HSI, but the AI and HSI provide output to drive the autopilot.
One EFIS solution may be the Aspen E5 with ACU which can output to legacy autopilots for $5995.
The other EFIS option is to install two Garmin G5 units (one set as AI and the other setup to display HSI).  My preliminary research led me to believe installing the new Garmin GAD29B module provides autopilot legacy output for my autopilot.  The Garmin G5 primary set as AI costs $2149,  the G5 primary set as HSI with the GAD29B costs $3154.  The 3 unit Garmin setup totals $5203.
Is one better or preferrable over the other?
Aspen has cleaner installed look
The Garmins can provide redundency for each other.
Both are well established trusted vendors.
I'm not sure about the installation time and cost for either option.
Its hard to find reviews that compare the Garmin vs Aspen configured to be equivalent (an apple to apple comparison).
I'd like to know the estimated difficulty and installation time for both options.
Cost of owning, maintaining and upgradability is important to me.
Which setup would you choose and why?

Brian - you’re going to find pro Garmin and pro Aspen camps here. Each manufacturer has their own merits and I would suggest you fly behind them both or at least ride along in planes with them.

I can speak to the Aspens as a 6 year owner and to the G5 as someone who flew as a safety pilot in planes equipped with them.

First, the Aspen E5 is not a direct equivalent for the G5 HSI. The Aspen E5 comes with just a DG, so if you are looking for an HSI, the Garmin is a better choice. I do believe, but confirm, that an E5 can be made into an Aspen PFD 1000 through firmware updates. This would allow you to buy the cheaper E5 and upgrade to the full unit later when funds are available.

I really like my Aspens (I have the 2000 system). Been rock solid and there is a lot of information, including a moving map on the PFD. The G5’s don’t display as much information (like waypoint data or the ADS-B in stuff) but certainly are no slouches. I would get to work with them a bit before committing.




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[gsxrpilot]

I have both in my plane. You're welcome to come along for a ride and see them both in action.

I have the Aspen E1000 Pro with the HSI. And then have a G5 mounted right next to it. I prefer the Aspen.

[EricJ]

I have a G5 HSI and a Century III autopilot with alt hold.   I don't know how different the Century IV is, but evidently a G5 will not drive the pitch/roll inputs of the Century III.   The HSI, via the GAD29B, will drive the lateral tracking, but I had to keep my vacuum AI for pitch/roll.   This still saddens me, as I'd love to have two G5s instead of just one.   :'(

[Oldguy]

7 hours ago, Marauder said:

I do believe, but confirm, that an E5 can be made into an Aspen PFD 1000 through firmware updates. This would allow you to buy the cheaper E5 and upgrade to the full unit later when funds are available.

From the Aspen web page for the E5:

PFD Upgrades

Easy and affordable Evolution E5 Non-TSO STC to full TSO Evolution 1000 Pro upgrade

[bradp]

I have two G5’s and a century iib single axis - 

The proper comparison is between the Aspen pro 1000 and two G5’s for IFR flight.  The 5k aspen does not have an HSI.  The 10K aspen does.  

The HSI G5 comes with a box GAD29b that includes a roll steering adapter to work with the century autopilot and interfaces signals from any modern digital (read Garmin) Nav radio. The box will work with any GPS box but the STC is limited to Garmin kit.  You will still need to keep your vacuum attitude indicator in the backup position for the G5.  If you did the aspen PRO they have a different autopilot adapter that provides pitch and roll input to the century so that the vacuum instrument can be removed.  

If I had: a king navcom and an avidyne box,  I really wanted my vacuum system out,  had a flight director autopilot, wanted moving map info on my HSI...I’d do an Aspen PRO 1000 pfd  with an EA100 adapter.  Again there’s not a role for the 5k aspen 500 for An IFR setup.  

If I had no FD autopilot, a Garmin navcom, and plans to replace my autopilot with a GFC 500/600 eventually- go with the dual G5’s.

box to box I’ve only compared the old hardware Aspens and the screen is brighter and the graphics motion is smoother on the Garmin G5. Aspen text is a bit bigger and you can present the HSI as an arc or a rose   New hardware aspens are supposed to have a better brighter screen and smoother / less jaggy/jumpy graphics 

 

[DanM20C]

22 hours ago, BrianW said:

I have a 1979 M20J with steam guages and factory installed Century 41 autopilot

Do you have a single or duel que flight director? I too have a C41 and it’s my understanding only the aspen will supply the aditude for the autopilot.  But not the E5, as Brad mentioned you will need the 1000 pro.  If you have a duel que FD now you will also have to send the C41 in to Century to get converted to a single at around 2K. Plus the folks at aspen told me I would need an additional box (2K)for the aspen to drive the c41. So now we are at 14K before install.  GFC500 is starting to sound like a bargain. 

I’m leaning towards replacing my HSI with a G5.  Then when the time is right add a second G5 With the gfc500 and pitching the C41. 

Cheers,

Dan

[N231BN]

Since it hasn't been specifically mentioned, the G5 will not provide attitude inputs for the century autopilot. You will need either a G500 or Aspen with their associated DAC's.

[kpaul]

I have a M20F with C41 A/P and dual G5s + GAD29B.  The G5s provide GPSS but I had to retain my Vacuum ADI.  

[bradp]

10 hours ago, N231BN said:

Since it hasn't been specifically mentioned, the G5 will not provide attitude inputs for the century autopilot. You will need either a G500 or Aspen with their associated DAC's.

Incorrect  - the attitude inputs are not supplied but it does not mean a dual G5 can’t be used with a century autopilot.  The G5 will provide lateral guidance via GPSS to the autopilot.  It does mean that the attitude indicator needs to be retained in the original turn coordinator position.  So you wouldn’t be able to remove a vacuum system. This is an important clarification.  If you want a total electric system then Aspen or G500.  If you want a hybrid the G5’s will work. 

 

This is a century attitude autopilot with the original AI in the TC position.  

[N231BN]

Incorrect  - the attitude inputs are not supplied but it does not mean a dual G5 can’t be used with a century autopilot.  The G5 will provide lateral guidance via GPSS to the autopilot.  It does mean that the attitude indicator needs to be retained in the original turn coordinator position.  So you wouldn’t be able to remove a vacuum system. This is an important clarification.  If you want a total electric system then Aspen or G500.  If you want a hybrid the G5’s will work. 
 
This is a century attitude autopilot with the original AI in the TC position.  

I think you misunderstood me, I just wanted the OP to know he needs to retain his vacuum gyro or get the above mentioned equipment to replace it.

[bradp]

I think so - were on the same page wrt the need to retain the vacuum.  

[mschmuff]

I have the Aspen Pro with the EA100 adapter driving my Century III autopilot.  Very pricey! I think the Aspen was $13k installed plus another $4k for the EA100.  The Aspen is awesome - love it!  The EA100 was a complete waste of money!! It actually flew better off of the steam gauge!  If I could do it all over again I would have saved my $$ and not done the EA100 - waited for the TruTrack and dumped the Century.  It's total BS that it flies worse and even more BS that with a G5 you still need to keep your steam gauge to drive your autopilot.  The entire idea of the G5 or Aspen is to get rid of the vacuum system! (well not the entire idea but you get my point!)

[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, mschmuff said:

I have the Aspen Pro with the EA100 adapter driving my Century III autopilot.  Very pricey! I think the Aspen was $13k installed plus another $4k for the EA100.  The Aspen is awesome - love it!  The EA100 was a complete waste of money!! It actually flew better off of the steam gauge!  If I could do it all over again I would have saved my $$ and not done the EA100 - waited for the TruTrack and dumped the Century.  It's total BS that it flies worse and even more BS that with a G5 you still need to keep your steam gauge to drive your autopilot.  The entire idea of the G5 or Aspen is to get rid of the vacuum system! (well not the entire idea but you get my point!)

I have the Aspen Pro/EA100 as well. But it's driving a KFC150. And it works great! I wouldn't want the KI256 back for any reason.

[LANCECASPER]

20 hours ago, mschmuff said:

I have the Aspen Pro with the EA100 adapter driving my Century III autopilot.  Very pricey! I think the Aspen was $13k installed plus another $4k for the EA100.  The Aspen is awesome - love it!  The EA100 was a complete waste of money!! It actually flew better off of the steam gauge!  If I could do it all over again I would have saved my $$ and not done the EA100 - waited for the TruTrack and dumped the Century.  It's total BS that it flies worse and even more BS that with a G5 you still need to keep your steam gauge to drive your autopilot.  The entire idea of the G5 or Aspen is to get rid of the vacuum system! (well not the entire idea but you get my point!)

The EA100 retails for 2700 and the street price is 2200. You need to get the EA100 aligned to your autopilot. Your autopilot was previously aligned to the attitude indicator that you had. I don't believe this can be done on the ground. Your tech needs to fly with you and make the small adjustments so it flies on rails.

[gsxrpilot]

It really sucks when a shop over charges for a job it doesn't know how to do correctly. My EA100 was $2500 installed... as one part of a larger panel overhaul that included an Aspen Pro ($6000 - Barnstormers) install among other things. My KFC150 follows the Aspen like it's on the preverbal rails.

[Marauder]

It really sucks when a shop over charges for a job it doesn't know how to do correctly. My EA100 was $2500 installed... as one part of a larger panel overhaul that included an Aspen Pro ($6000 - Barnstormers) install among other things. My KFC150 follows the Aspen like it's on the preverbal rails.

Although the STEC 60-2 in my plane doesn’t use the EA-100, the Aspen GPSS has really tightened up the tracking.


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[BrianW]

Hi All,

Some added info:

My M20J doesn't have a flight director.  It has the common Century attitude indicator and directional gyro (not an HSI - my mistake in the initial description).

The GAD29B has 2 input ports to which  the G5 units can connect. 

I assumed my autopilot receives it's input from my current directional gyro via the heading bug for my heading.  And my AI provides attitude input.  I'm not sure how the Century 41 receives altitude info.

However I thought the G5 in HSI mode  would provide direction and the second G5 would provide the attitude input.  I assumed I needed the two G5 to provide input to the GAD29B, which processed and provided output to the Century 41.

I need to look into this in more detail to see if using the Garmins would reduce functionality of the Autopilot.

☺

[BrianW]

Or perhaps I need only the one G5 connected to the GAD29B.  Maybe the single G5 provides both attitude AND directional info to the GAD29B to output to the Century 41.

[N231BN]

The G5 will not provide attitude info to a Century autopilot. The G5 HSI can provide heading bug and course pointer signals. You will need to retain your attitude indicator or upgrade to an Aspen or Garmin 500 and add their converters to remove the original attitude indicator.

 

 

[Marauder]

Or perhaps I need only the one G5 connected to the GAD29B.  Maybe the single G5 provides both attitude AND directional info to the GAD29B to output to the Century 41.

Brian - I think it might be best to have a shop look at the issue. My STEC like your Century require input from the legacy hardware. In my case, the turn coordinator. Your AI is your legacy hardware.

You may be experiencing an issue with the required AI and installing either a Garmin or Aspen isn’t going to correct this issue. The only way I know of to get rid of the legacy hardware is to upgrade to a pure digital autopilot like the GFC 500 or the STEC 3100.


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[bradp]

Recent rundown of aspen offerings from aviation consumer. 

note how the non-max appears jagged and jumpy compared to the new hardware that will be available soon.  

The G5’s perform like the max in terms of smoothness (given they are asked to do potentially less processing - no SVT), but I’d be hard pressed to feel comfortable in bumpy IMC with a jumpy display.  

The E5 gives the ability to get rid of the vacuum presumably because it’s STCd under NOrSee.  No mention of what the requirement is if you software upgrade the E5 to the Max 1000 - requires another backup? Gets the red x of death or relies on GPS backup assist. 

The g5 has a slightly more comforting algorithm   That uses GPS WAAS to back up the air data so it will fly degraded mode like the E5 and avoid an instrument failure in IMC.  Larry alludes to those problems in the piece.  

Both/all are solutions  - you just need to find the correct solution for your application, understand the limitations and know the budget. 

If you’re thinking multiple Aspen PFD/MFDs then the avionics  budget jumps a strata and you might as well install a G500/G500Txi.  

[Marauder]

Recent rundown of aspen offerings from aviation consumer. 
note how the non-max appears jagged and jumpy compared to the new hardware that will be available soon.  
The G5’s perform like the max in terms of smoothness (given they are asked to do potentially less processing - no SVT), but I’d be hard pressed to feel comfortable in bumpy IMC with a jumpy display.  
The E5 gives the ability to get rid of the vacuum presumably because it’s STCd under NOrSee.  No mention of what the requirement is if you software upgrade the E5 to the Max 1000 - requires another backup? Gets the red x of death or relies on GPS backup assist. 
The g5 has a slightly more comforting algorithm   That uses GPS WAAS to back up the air data so it will fly degraded mode like the E5 and avoid an instrument failure in IMC.  Larry alludes to those problems in the piece.  
Both/all are solutions  - you just need to find the correct solution for your application, understand the limitations and know the budget. 
If you’re thinking multiple Aspen PFD/MFDs then the avionics  budget jumps a strata and you might as well install a G500/G500Txi.  

I’ve flown behind the original Aspen Pro 2000 for the past 6 years. Had the SVT & AoA added in last year. You will never notice the “jumpiness” unless you are flying the SVT. And to be quite honest, for an east coast flyer, SVT is pretty useless. When flying in the regular mode, you will not notice any jumpiness.

As for the red X, I do find it funny that people point this out as a problem. Or as an instrument problem. It is not an instrument problem. It is a failure to turn on the pitot heat problem. I see the red X as a “hey stupid” reminder to turn on the pitot heat that you should probably have had on already. In the 6 years of flying, I have not seen the infamous red X. Then again, I remember to turn on the pitot heat.

Where I will agree with you on is making an informed decision. Each of these systems have benefits and drawbacks. Selecting the correct one for your flight needs and budget is the challenge.


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[gsxrpilot]

5 hours ago, bradp said:

Recent rundown of aspen offerings from aviation consumer. 
note how the non-max appears jagged and jumpy compared to the new hardware that will be available soon.  
The G5’s perform like the max in terms of smoothness (given they are asked to do potentially less processing - no SVT), but I’d be hard pressed to feel comfortable in bumpy IMC with a jumpy display.  
The E5 gives the ability to get rid of the vacuum presumably because it’s STCd under NOrSee.  No mention of what the requirement is if you software upgrade the E5 to the Max 1000 - requires another backup? Gets the red x of death or relies on GPS backup assist. 
The g5 has a slightly more comforting algorithm   That uses GPS WAAS to back up the air data so it will fly degraded mode like the E5 and avoid an instrument failure in IMC.  Larry alludes to those problems in the piece.  
Both/all are solutions  - you just need to find the correct solution for your application, understand the limitations and know the budget. 
If you’re thinking multiple Aspen PFD/MFDs then the avionics  budget jumps a strata and you might as well install a G500/G500Txi.  

I spent a lot of time at one point, trying to decide between the Aspen and the G500. In the end the Aspen made more sense for me. And a big reason was the reduced number of backup instruments required. The G500 MFD can't backup the PFD like the Aspen's can. I didn't install the MFD for other reasons, but I will once the MAX is released. The MAX will further reduce the requirement for backup instruments. Again, the G500Txi is just a step behind.

I've only seen the red X once, and as @Marauder said, I thought, stupid me for not turning on the pitot heat. I flipped it on, the red X went away never to be seen again.

I don't have SVT on the Aspen and have never noticed any jumpiness in the display. I've shot approaches to ILS minimums and never thought twice about it. SVT really isn't useful in the flat country. I do have SVT on my IFD540 and it has come in useful once in the mountains. But I don't see the need for it on the Aspen.

Anyway, just my $0.02 but no regrets on the Aspen for me.

[Jim Peace]

On 1/3/2019 at 9:42 AM, BrianW said:

Hi All,

Some added info:

My M20J doesn't have a flight director. 

Can you explain the tail number in your avatar?

:N3577H