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Training standardization


midlifeflyer

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All this talk of transitions and private pilot training in the Caribbean got me thinking... 

I am likely going to be doing private pilot training in a "C" - potential student recently bought one. Do any of the other instructors here have something akin to a standardized flight maneuvers manual for the Mooney they care to share? Or at least a maneuvers crib sheet.  I've seen similar things being helpful to students as a study reference and 'm thinking in terms of doing something along those lines. But being a lazy SOB, I want to avoid reinventing the wheel.

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54 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

I have the MAPA Manual. Yep it's a great reference and overview, but doesn't focus on the various PTS/ACS maneuvers.

But it has lots of information on engine management and power settings. Those are great places to start for a new pilot. My first PPP was a whole month after finishing my insurance dual, and I hit 100 hours total time enroute to it.

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2 hours ago, eman1200 said:

why would the PTS/ACS maneuvers be any different for a mooney than other models?

They are not.

But that's true of landings too, isn't it?  Landing a Mooney is just like landing any other airplane. Same target airspeed and configurations as a Cessna 152.

The big schools are doing these big manuals, a bit of overkill, but I've been seeing type-specific maneuvers checklists for student pilots since the one my CFI gave me for the Tomahawk more than 30 years ago.  I like them as a student reference.

 

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Mark,

If you end up writing one for the New 2 Mooney Transitioners....

What would a CFI include?

 

I thought about this for a while, but could only come up with (believe it or not) PP ideas, not CFI ones.....   :)

Some of the points are interesting because they are really deep MS experience... a whole bunch related to ownership and Maintenance that is typically an afternote to transition training....

 

A top 10 20+ List for New 2 Mooney Topics..... (PP and Ownership)

1) Prefight.... Mooney specific things to look at... (10 bullet points inside and out, cockpit and controls set-up, physical functional tests

2) Engine start/shutdown....  (hot, cold, normal, no need to hand prop..., rpm rise on mixture ICO,

3) Taxi... (deep leaning, staying centered, brake check, engine stumble because of mixture setting...

4) Run-up... (engine monitor basics, EM advanced,  EGT rise and fall, clearing a dirty plug, loss of governor, 

5) Take-off... (full power, full rpm, full FF, airspeed alive, EGT method for Best power/non SL, DA performance, engine STUMBLE...

6) Climb... (speeds, Vx, Vy, Vz, mixture control - EGT method in the climb

7) Cruise... (ROP, LOP, redbox

8) Descent... (descent planning, Vne, Maneuvering speeds, go down/slow down, gear speeds, flap speeds, flap/trim relationship

9) Traffic pattern... (configurations, speeds, power, key positions, curved approach, stallspeed/bank angle

10) Landing... (highlights by Don Kaye, weight, wind,  x-wind, performance landings, Go Arounds...

11) Emergency procedures... (engine out extending the glide, stall recognition / recovery, mechanical gear lowering, rapid descent using brakes, balancing failed trim control,

12) Other ownership topics... (weak points of exhaust systems, CO in the cockpit, leaky fuel tanks, seat belts old and new, corrosion topics,

13) Recording the flight data for review... (CloudAhoy, Engine monitor, WingX, download methods

14) WnB calculations... (Five large people in an M20C won’t fly, WnB apps

15) Proper POH for the plane... (where the important data is to stay out of the trees... latest excel/app calculators for T/O length...

16) Running out of fuel happens... (Tools we have to minimize this, gauge improvements, FF/totalizer, filling, useable fuel, enabling the Low Level fuel anunciator (important),

17) Gear ups happen... (Tools we have... distraction awareness, verbal checklists, beeps and buzzers vs. voice warnings

18) Maximizing speed in all four phases of flight...

19) Maximizing efficiency in all four phases of flight...

20) What to do when... trees are the only remaining option... (we have a few survivor stories around MS...

 

Bonus...

21) Water landings... (proper configuration for that too, how long a Mooney floats, proper rafts and life jacket experience around here....

22) We don’t have many Mooney VFR flights in IMC, but that is probably a great topic for transition training as well...

 

Anyone else want to add to the list? Or remove from the list or edit the list? I left the parentheses open on purpose...

PP thoughts only, not a transition trainer.... a list of ideas that came to mind, no depth or completeness should be expected...

Just shared thoughts and ideas... that I may have learned around MS.

23) wait a minute...  MooneySpace.com... (Improving safety, efficiency, and speed, through discussion, spread the word... :))

Best regards,

-a-

After thought... https://smile.amazon.com/. (Where buying stuff supports the Mooney charity... (using smile extension))

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45 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Mark,

If you end up writing one for the New 2 Mooney Transitioners....

What would a CFI include?

 

I thought about this for a while, but could only come up with (believe it or not) PP ideas, not CFI ones.....   :)

Some of the points are interesting because they are really deep MS experience... a whole bunch related to ownership and Maintenance that is typically an afternote to transition training....

 

A top 10 20+ List for New 2 Mooney Topics..... (PP and Ownership)

1) Prefight.... Mooney specific things to look at... (10 bullet points inside and out, cockpit and controls set-up, physical functional tests

2) Engine start/shutdown....  (hot, cold, normal, no need to hand prop..., rpm rise on mixture ICO,

3) Taxi... (deep leaning, staying centered, brake check, engine stumble because of mixture setting...

4) Run-up... (engine monitor basics, EM advanced,  EGT rise and fall, clearing a dirty plug, loss of governor, 

5) Take-off... (full power, full rpm, full FF, airspeed alive, EGT method for Best power/non SL, DA performance, engine STUMBLE...

6) Climb... (speeds, Vx, Vy, Vz, mixture control - EGT method in the climb

7) Cruise... (ROP, LOP, redbox

8) Descent... (descent planning, Vne, Maneuvering speeds, go down/slow down, gear speeds, flap speeds, flap/trim relationship

9) Traffic pattern... (configurations, speeds, power, key positions, curved approach, stallspeed/bank angle

10) Landing... (highlights by Don Kaye, weight, wind,  x-wind, performance landings, Go Arounds...

11) Emergency procedures... (engine out extending the glide, stall recognition / recovery, mechanical gear lowering, rapid descent using brakes, balancing failed trim control,

12) Other ownership topics... (weak points of exhaust systems, CO in the cockpit, leaky fuel tanks, seat belts old and new, corrosion topics,

13) Recording the flight data for review... (CloudAhoy, Engine monitor, WingX, download methods

14) WnB calculations... (Five large people in an M20C won’t fly, WnB apps

15) Proper POH for the plane... (where the important data is to stay out of the trees... latest excel/app calculators for T/O length...

16) Running out of fuel happens... (Tools we have to minimize this, gauge improvements, FF/totalizer, filling, useable fuel, enabling the Low Level fuel anunciator (important),

17) Gear ups happen... (Tools we have... distraction awareness, verbal checklists, beeps and buzzers vs. voice warnings

18) Maximizing speed in all four phases of flight...

19) Maximizing efficiency in all four phases of flight...

20) What to do when... trees are the only remaining option... (we have a few survivor stories around MS...

 

Bonus...

21) Water landings... (proper configuration for that too, how long a Mooney floats, proper rafts and life jacket experience around here....

22) We don’t have many Mooney VFR flights in IMC, but that is probably a great topic for transition training as well...

 

Anyone else want to add to the list? Or remove from the list or edit the list? I left the parentheses open on purpose...

PP thoughts only, not a transition trainer.... a list of ideas that came to mind, no depth or completeness should be expected...

Just shared thoughts and ideas... that I may have learned around MS.

23) wait a minute...  MooneySpace.com... (Improving safety, efficiency, and speed, through discussion, spread the word... :))

Best regards,

-a-

After thought... https://smile.amazon.com/. (Where buying stuff supports the Mooney charity... (using smile extension))

That's an excellent listing of topics for a transition. The one I'm thinking of writing is for a primary student. Student pilot from ground zero.

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On 12/22/2018 at 7:44 AM, eman1200 said:

why would the PTS/ACS maneuvers be any different for a mooney than other models?

A standardized training program includes exact speeds, flap settings etc which will vary by model. You don’t see this much in the 91 world but the military and 121’s do standardized training. ATP has a standardized training manual for acs manuevers in the Seneca. It ensures every student flies each maneuver precisely the same  

-Robert 

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9 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

A standardized training program includes exact speeds, flap settings etc which will vary by model. You don’t see this much in the 91 world but the military and 121’s do standardized training. ATP has a standardized training manual for acs manuevers in the Seneca. It ensures every student flies each maneuver precisely the same  

-Robert 

Good luck with that! There are many, many models and engines, it would be difficult to collect and tedious to compile. Anything from 180 -- 310 hp, with turbo models from 210 -- 310 hp. At least there are only three Flap settings . . .

It is a good thought, and you have my best wishes to bring your vision to fruition. Maybe we can help you collect data, one or two people for as many models, A -- V, as possible. 

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26 minutes ago, Hank said:

Good luck with that! There are many, many models and engines, it would be difficult to collect and tedious to compile. Anything from 180 -- 310 hp, with turbo models from 210 -- 310 hp. At least there are only three Flap settings . . .

It is a good thought, and you have my best wishes to bring your vision to fruition. Maybe we can help you collect data, one or two people for as many models, A -- V, as possible. 

I'm limiting my inquiry to the 180 HP normally aspirated C model because that's the one I may be giving primary training in. I don't see too much call for student pilot training in an Ovation :D  (not too much in any Mooney) It's not a big deal. I have one for a PA-28. Just changing the numbers and adding a few steps. 

But I'm not sure folks here have been exposed to these. Here's an (overkill) example from the Delaware State University aviation program and a less complex sample from a flying club In those, the goal is standardization of training for a large group. Mine is less ambitions - a study manual for the student pilot. I would not go into that level of written detail with a private pilot doing a transition.

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  • 1 month later...

I did most of my pp training in my E model some 16 years ago. I'm curently a working cfi. Semi-retirement gig:) I dont recall needing anything other than the poh and some basic power settings for pattern work and the various acs (pts) manuevers. I did need to figure out how to get a good descent rate going in bumpy air without the gear alarm blaring:) For that I'd pull the prop back to 1950 and go to min throttle. That would get me about 120mph which was comfortable in turbulence. 

   I would be more concerned with the dreaded bounce:) Many of my pp students balloon when they're learning to flare. They also dont add enough nose up trim so when they release the back pressure to come back down they inevitably come down nose gear first. I teach them to give it some nose up trim after they pull throttle over the fence or in the roundout while holding pitch constant so the controls are nice and light after round out and in the flare. When the controls are heavy they lose the fine control of pitch they need for a smooth landing and are more likely to bounce.

Edited by Pete M
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