Check Gear!

[PT20J]

Back to the original point, if you want to hear how easy it is to forget the gear, read this:

https://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/188536-1.html

[midlifeflyer]

BTW, there is a CFI crisis. Namely, a shortage. With the pilot shortage in full gear, young CFIs who, let's face it, are the mainstay of primary training, are being scooped up by airline programs pretty much as soon as they get their commercial multi ratings. Some even before that. For at least the past year or so, the number of flight schools begging for CFIs  has been astounding. And it's coming in from all over the country.

[Yetti]

5 hours ago, m20kmooney said:

 

Well, in my world we have surgeons teaching student surgeons in an "actual" OR and on an "actual" patient with "actual" conditions and complications. This is professionals teaching other professionals in an "actual" setting called a residency. This is beyond the books in "actual" conditions. Why should we teach pilots any differently? To put it bluntly, some so called CFI's teach pilots as a high school Bio teacher would teach doctors. 

Then why would an experienced vascular neurosurgeon take on the biopsy of a diffuse glioma when there is a way more capable cancer center located 400 yards away?  Here let me answer because the Administrators have a "keep in the system" policy and doctors lose their professional teaching concept because of their god complex. As you have exhibited here.  To think that the medical profession is an premier example of teaching process is absurd. Pipelines in this country have better processes than the medical practice.   If we ran pipeline like we did the medical practice there would be a small city lost off the map on a weekly basis.

[carusoam]

Gents,

Lucas is ‘just’ stirring the pot...

He has been doing it for quite some time already...

it started before he blamed everybody else for raising his insurance cost...

It started before he ignored people dying in airplanes is more expensive than gear ups...

A real god complex ends miserably.  Fortunately, real MSers haven’t bowed low enough to just wish him well...

There is a potential gear up in every Mooney’s future accept about three... all M20Ds in their original configuration.

Fortunately Lucas will be with us here for much longer than that.  

I am looking forward to Lucas enjoying years of normal landings just like all the other extraordinary Mooney pilots that we have at MS....

His method of getting everybody to pay attention one more time is interesting, but a tad negative...

maybe it inspires one more pilot.

Way to go, @m20kmooney, you made my day! 

Best regards,

-a-

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

BTW, there is a CFI crisis. Namely, a shortage. With the pilot shortage in full gear, young CFIs who, let's face it, are the mainstay of primary training, are being scooped up by airline programs pretty much as soon as they get their commercial multi ratings. Some even before that. For at least the past year or so, the number of flight schools begging for CFIs  has been astounding. And it's coming in from all over the country.

That's very evident around here, where we have a large number of large flying schools, filling our airspace with school planes and students.   I spend my days in close proximity to one of those large schools and have some friends who've been through them.   The process, as one might expect, is that as the students move up and accumulate ratings, a CFI and CFII are among the ratings that they can get.   They're motivated to get those ratings, because the moment they do they'll start instructing at that school, in that system.   This meets the school's needs for CFI/CFIIs, but it also means that a lot of the CFI/CFIIs out there have the bare minimum training and experience to have those ratings.

One of my friends that had been through this particular program flew with me in my airplane with another pilot friend of ours on a lunch trip to celebrate his completing the program and getting hired in Alaska to start his professional flying career.  He pointed out on climbout that I needed to be careful to not run the engine oversquare.   When I told him that's not really a thing he initially got a bit indignant about it, but let it go.   He's since sorted out that it's not really a thing. 

He also flew with me a bit when I was time-crunched during my IR training since he's a CFII, and he was actually one of the better instructors I've ever flown with.   I'd have loved to finish my training with him but was just on a break from his pro gig in Alaska and had to go back.

So, there are a ton of CFI/CFIIs out there with really minimal experience, because the big schools are cranking them out to meet their own needs.   As soon as those guys finish the program they head off to their next jobs and then the school backfills with the next crop of fresh CFI/CFIIs.   As might be expected, this means that there a ton of CFI/CFIIs out there with a lot of misconceptions about things for no reason other than they're inexperienced.  As also might be expected, some of them might still be decent at what they do.

I've also run across the old, highly experienced, gold-seal, grumpy instructors that I wouldn't trust to teach somebody how to open a door.

It's definitely an odd time in the industry.
 

 

[carusoam]

Interesting side effects of an expanding economy...

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

When I was ready to learn to fly, I went looking for an instructor the same way I look to hire an employee. I interviewed 5, flew with 2, and chose the grumpy old, gold seal, CFI, who after a long career at both Pan Am and Eastern, really loves to teach. I stayed with him for the PPL and IR. If I hadn't moved overseas, I'd have continued with him. That was all just about exactly 10 years ago.

One day I hope to be the grumpy old CFI who hangs out at the airport and teaches kids to fly.

[aviatoreb]

I had the P2 audio system - B'Betty "CHECK GEAR!" in a frantic voice or "gear is down" in a calm voice which is a very nice one more layer. Nothing is full proof but I do believe in audible alerts IN ENGLISH when possible (versus a variety of tones and notes).

[bonal]

Seems like the subject has drifted a bit. I think a very low cost aid to preventing a gear up I say aid as nothing is fool proof. But why not install your go pro or what have you camera on the underside of the tail looking forward with a wifi display on the panel or even just atop the glare shield showing the gear up or down. Seems this would be not much different than an AOA device that one can also keep an eye on as part of your sweep. 

[gsxrpilot]

42 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

I had the P2 audio system - B'Betty "CHECK GEAR!" in a frantic voice or "gear is down" in a calm voice which is a very nice one more layer. Nothing is full proof but I do believe in audible alerts IN ENGLISH when possible (versus a variety of tones and notes).

This is what I've got in my 252. The "CHECK GEAR" sounds like my wife. But when I extend the gear in a timely manner, I get "Gear is Down" from Sam Elliott. 

The other day I was just a bit fast and on final my wife actually said, "Is the gear down?" I double checked and assured her it was. She said, "I haven't heard Sam say it yet." He did. Just as I was coming in over the numbers.

[aviatoreb]

35 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

This is what I've got in my 252. The "CHECK GEAR" sounds like my wife. But when I extend the gear in a timely manner, I get "Gear is Down" from Sam Elliott. 

The other day I was just a bit fast and on final my wife actually said, "Is the gear down?" I double checked and assured her it was. She said, "I haven't heard Sam say it yet." He did. Just as I was coming in over the numbers.

It is Sam!

[carusoam]

To get a better picture of who is in your head sets...

-a-

 

[bradp]

Newest firmware sponsored by the American beef counsil. 

Sam: “Gear... it’s what’s down and locked.  Beef... it’s whats for dinner” 

Problem is when he remembers to remind you about the beef but forgets to remind you about the gear.    

[0TreeLemur]

On 12/28/2018 at 12:54 PM, PT20J said:

Back to the original point, if you want to hear how easy it is to forget the gear, read this:

https://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/188536-1.html

O.  M.  G.    Do us mortals have reason to be afraid?   Yes.

Thanks for posting the link this compelling story @PT20J

[Hank]

Distractions happen. We're all human. 

[0TreeLemur]

Five guys with over 100,000 hours of aviation experience between them, sitting around watching dials, gauges, and switches....  Ten seconds from flare with the gear tucked snugly into their beds, and the gear warning horn switched off.  Fat, dumb, and happy.   Yessir-ee.  Sounds like "mayhem" from the Allstate commercials.

If not for an idle eye roaming over the panel!   That's the advantage offered by experience, habit/routine, and non-distracted opportunity.  You gotta believe that if it can almost happen to _them_, we are majorly screwed without a lot of extra attention, and even then...   All it would have taken for them to miss the opportunity would have been  SFO tower calling up just before the captain realized the gear were up, with: "Uh, JAL 994 heavy, were going to need you to uuuh exit the runway at the first high speed you can because we want to get our stripe painting crew uuhhh back out there." 

Anyone who says they'll never do it might.  It won't affect our insurance rates because it is already built into the actuarial tables that determine our insurance rates!  Those cats don't sell insurance when they haven't quantified the risk!

I'll NEVER leave a laptop at an airport security checkpoint.  I never thought I would leave a laptop at an airport security checkpoint.  All it took was a cranky security employee at BDL to yell "Hey!  Keep it movin'! " when I was the only person in line, and I got mad/distracted, and walked away pissed-off-  without my laptop.  I figured it out half way to ORD.

Godspeed, ya'll, and happy 2.019E+03

But for the grace of....

Fred

 

[m20kmooney]

It’s very difficult to forget the gear. Requires hard work. I wonder what the ratio of intentional vs unintentional gear up landings is.

[midlifeflyer]

3 hours ago, m20kmooney said:

It’s very difficult to forget the gear. Requires hard work. 

WAG: most pilots who landed gear up (unintentionally) felt exactly the same way. Very strongly too.

Anything starting with "can't happen to me" creates it's own set of risk factors.

I recall Rod Machado saying two things about landing gear up:

• It involves exactly the same amount of inattention as thinking you changed frequencies, calling the new one and being told by ATC that you are still on the old one.
• The best defense is some healthy paranoia.

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by midlifeflyer

[Atalla]

...and another one yesterday at Henderson Nevada. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Atalla

[gsxrpilot]

I think this one was recently repaired from another gear up.

[EricJ]

Maybe a collapse?   Looks like the doors are partially open.

 

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Maybe a collapse?   Looks like the doors are partially open.

 

Or don't close tight. 

[Yetti]

I think I read that Hit the gear down switch, breaker popped, did not notice and went ahead and landed.

My F keeps getting more and more valuable.  I always hear my transition instructors voice going through my head about gear.   The other thing that I thinks to help is going through the landing plan at 5 miles out.  When I call the landing call, I plan the gear down.   At threshold for the pattern, at 3 miles out for straight in.

 

 

[MBDiagMan]

On 12/15/2018 at 11:29 AM, gsxrpilot said:

My primary and instrument instructor taught the same thing. He said never to sit and listen to the gear horn. When it comes off, stop what you're doing and turn it back off. Turning the gear horn off involves either extending the gear or increasing power. Either is fine, just don't sit there and let it ring. The last thing you want is to get used to hearing it ring.

Paul, please forgive me for using this post as a segway for a possible thread hijack, but I think it is productive in encouraging us to land with gear down.

Since buying a Mooney I probably have a few hundred landings VFR and have been very good at being careful and mindful in putting down the gear.  There were never any close calls UNTIL I finally got everything going with my instrument training.  Instructor choices are extremely limited where I fly.  I was trying an instructor at a nearby field but I had to ferry back and forth for lessons and he knew nothing about the 430W.  I finally am flying with an effective instructor albeit with a coarse and irritating bedside manner. I am forcing myself to deal with the manner, but him making me nervous is counterproductive sometimes.

Without announcing that he would be silent, he shut up on an approach and left me on my own.  I didn’t do very bad, but guess what, Somewhere along the way, he pointed out that I had not put down the gear.  It was quite rattling.  I couldn’t believe I had done such a thing.  We have been struggling with gear horn on too much so I am committed to fixing that before I fly with him again.  I figured out how to adjust it myself, so I expect to work it out.

I am very new at this.  Maybe six or eight approaches under my belt.  I am anxious to get a step by step from you guys now that I have experienced the approach sequence.  I am thinking that I should descend to altitude before the Intermediate Fix and stabilize to gear speed immediately after, then putdown the gear.  The instructor has spent so much time telling me what to do and when to do it as we fly, I haven’t formulated it in my own mind.

My failure to put the gear down was rattling.  I am sure he did it to make a good point and it worked.  I hope he willl start being that effective in teaching me what and when.  I caught a cold and have some down time so I am hoping to do some visualization to get a good method in my head.

This has much to do with gear down landing so I hope it is not considered a rude intrusion to the thread.

[jaylw314]

21 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Paul, please forgive me for using this post as a segway for a possible thread hijack, but I think it is productive in encouraging us to land with gear down.

Since buying a Mooney I probably have a few hundred landings VFR and have been very good at being careful and mindful in putting down the gear.  There were never any close calls UNTIL I finally got everything going with my instrument training.  Instructor choices are extremely limited where I fly.  I was trying an instructor at a nearby field but I had to ferry back and forth for lessons and he knew nothing about the 430W.  I finally am flying with an effective instructor albeit with a coarse and irritating bedside manner. I am forcing myself to deal with the manner, but him making me nervous is counterproductive sometimes.

Without announcing that he would be silent, he shut up on an approach and left me on my own.  I didn’t do very bad, but guess what, Somewhere along the way, he pointed out that I had not put down the gear.  It was quite rattling.  I couldn’t believe I had done such a thing.  We have been struggling with gear horn on too much so I am committed to fixing that before I fly with him again.  I figured out how to adjust it myself, so I expect to work it out.

I am very new at this.  Maybe six or eight approaches under my belt.  I am anxious to get a step by step from you guys now that I have experienced the approach sequence.  I am thinking that I should descend to altitude before the Intermediate Fix and stabilize to gear speed immediately after, then putdown the gear.  The instructor has spent so much time telling me what to do and when to do it as we fly, I haven’t formulated it in my own mind.

My failure to put the gear down was rattling.  I am sure he did it to make a good point and it worked.  I hope he willl start being that effective in teaching me what and when.  I caught a cold and have some down time so I am hoping to do some visualization to get a good method in my head.

This has much to do with gear down landing so I hope it is not considered a rude intrusion to the thread.

Compared to a lot of students I've run into, I'm a little surprised at how much you know and are aware of how you learn best.  That would suggest to me that if you find your instructor off-putting, that he may not be the most effective instructor out there.

One thing worth keeping in mind about putting the gear down--IIRC, most approaches are specifically designed to have a straight, constant-altitude segment before or shortly before the FAF or equivalent.  If there is an Intermediate Fix, it's usually the segment thereafter.  The intention is to give you a "recombobulation" area and a chance to catch up with the plane.  That suggests this would be a good time to make a habit out of doing things like checking your airspeed and doing your GUMPS check, among other things, during that segment.  It also suggests that if you have not gotten recombobulated by the time you hit the FAF, it would be fair game to fly to the missed approach and ask for a new approach.

If it makes you feel any better, last month I flew an ILS almost all the way to the FAF (or at least expected GS intercept) before I realized I was not receiving the ILS and hadn't listened for it.  Obviously, I called Approach back and sheepishly asked to go back for the RNAV approach.