The NEW new panel

[ArtVandelay]

Panel finished and after the re-weigh I’m 60 kg (132lb) lighter - nearly a whole person wow!

I think that’s just an indication of how inaccurate the scales are, I had a friend who had his weighed and it was 120lbs over book. I have zero confidence in the scales and methods they used.


Tom

[M016576]

24 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I think that’s just an indication of how inaccurate the scales are, I had a friend who had his weighed and it was 120lbs over book. I have zero confidence in the scales and methods they used.


Tom

Funny... I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a plane that gets lighter after the re-weigh.  I’m suspect of the process and scales as well.

wish we could just taxi over to the local truck stop and use their certified scales

Edited January 6, 2019 by M016576

[Steve Skinner]

I think that’s just an indication of how inaccurate the scales are, I had a friend who had his weighed and it was 120lbs over book. I have zero confidence in the scales and methods they used.


Tom

No I think I can see near 60 kg on the ground.
There was at least 25 kg of wire and every steam gauge and EFIS and vac pump
that came out of both panel and avionics bay.
The back up elec vac weighs quite a bit on its own
Also got rid of all the wiring that comes with every Mooney - the standard wiring harness


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[ArtVandelay]

No I think I can see near 60 kg on the ground.
There was at least 25 kg of wire and every steam gauge and EFIS and vac pump
that came out of both panel and avionics bay.
The back up elec vac weighs quite a bit on its own
Also got rid of all the wiring that comes with every Mooney - the standard wiring harness

1000’ of 18 gauge wire...5lbs
Elec vac backup...12lbs
Vac pump and accessories....5lbs
Attitude gyro...2lbs
T&B ....1.5lbs
HSI...5lbs
AS,VS,Alt...3.5lbs
VOR(2)...3lbs
Misc...7lbs
Total...20kg removed...but you have to add in what you installed...so call it 15kg. It’s a long way off of 60kg...
I go through this every time with an AP when changing W&B, they are apparently afraid of math and try to convince me to spend the money to weigh my plane. Which I can understand, I went through my W&B history and found 20 errors...funny thing is they mostly cancel out, leaving a difference of 2lbs.
Of course in order to weigh the plane correctly, you have to empty the fuel tanks...a PITA job, and I’m guessing it’s skipped at times.



Tom

[Steve Skinner]

1000’ of 18 gauge wire...5lbs
Elec vac backup...12lbs
Vac pump and accessories....5lbs
Attitude gyro...2lbs
T&B ....1.5lbs
HSI...5lbs
AS,VS,Alt...3.5lbs
VOR(2)...3lbs
Misc...7lbs
Total...20kg removed...but you have to add in what you installed...so call it 15kg. It’s a long way off of 60kg...
I go through this every time with an AP when changing W&B, they are apparently afraid of math and try to convince me to spend the money to weigh my plane. Which I can understand, I went through my W&B history and found 20 errors...funny thing is they mostly cancel out, leaving a difference of 2lbs.
Of course in order to weigh the plane correctly, you have to empty the fuel tanks...a PITA job, and I’m guessing it’s skipped at times.



Tom

Efis 40 is 23.7 lb and I understand what you are saying but the large plastic bin full of wiring was I’d suggest 25 lb I picked it up maybe the box weighed 5lb.
Also removed ADF radio and aerial, JPI 800 and 6 pack instrument cluster.
What went back in was 1 1060 Txi 1 EIS and gcu + G5 with backup battery - about 6 kg all up.
Plane wasn’t reweighed when we changed out the KLN90B or the old transponder for Gtn750 & 345 remote.
You could be correct. I don’t know at what point you require a reweigh but I was told by the A&P it was necessary - probably a $500 experience.


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[Steve Skinner]

So yesterday was the first time I saw the finished product.

went for a fly with Quality Avionics tech to check AH LEVEL setting - perfect

got a HDG FAIL intermittently which apparently Garmin say is interference - Still looking

Fuel flow is showing at about 220% of actual. Can’t fix with fuel calibration as it’s outside their 10% Still looking

flew 2.5 hrs yesterday with 4 gps approaches .

today 3 hrs 8 approaches.

Getting to know this equipment is a big deal. The normal steam gauge instruments aren’t where they used to be and the EIS gauges don’t command the same respect - but I know they must.

tip - EIS is sent directly to iPad mini - provides everything you would need - delay is less than 1 second.

so you can keep map/charts on MFD and engine on 1 iPad and maybe approach charts on knee or yolk. (Which I do - on pax seat)

Havent worked it out yet but VNAV CALC sometimes shows a weird screen on GTN 750 where you can’t input VS or BOT b4 target just a default profile. ?.? But other times as per normal - has had a mandatory update which may explain that.

Easy to get fixated inside aircraft . On one occasion I was doing a missed and found myself at an “unusual attitude” (won’t elaborate) and had to disengage auto pilot to recover. So still unsure what I did wrong if anything  or if I have a problem with trim motor.

ok say I initiated the missed approach which the auto pilot flew.  I selected 6000 ft 800 ft/m VS and added full power.

the aircraft was in a (I assume) a rate 1 left turn but seemed to pitch up to 2000ft/min climb.

it was about now I disconnected the auto pilot to recover from an inevitable stall.

 

on another note I flew a hands off hold  with absolutely no input - could have been asleep till I ran out of fuel - not recommended.

On returning to Archerfield I was trimming but felt the yolk getting heavy. Put my hand on the trim wheel and it wasn’t moving. A bit of a twist and and started to run - think that’s what caused the unusual attitude.

something to be aware of young players.

so while I’m prattling on it’s time to remember if you are in imc or Vfr  things can go wrong outside your control (trim sticking or vac failure).

I thought some might appreciate an honest response for a new learning experience. Warts and all

[m20kmooney]

57 minutes ago, Steve Skinner said:

was trimming but felt the yolk getting heavy

Was it a double yolk or a single jumbo one? Heavy yolks make the best omelettes! 

Edited January 17, 2019 by m20kmooney

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Steve Skinner said:

So yesterday was the first time I saw the finished product.

went for a fly with Quality Avionics tech to check AH LEVEL setting - perfect

got a HDG FAIL intermittently which apparently Garmin say is interference - Still looking

Fuel flow is showing at about 220% of actual. Can’t fix with fuel calibration as it’s outside their 10% Still looking

flew 2.5 hrs yesterday with 4 gps approaches .

today 3 hrs 8 approaches.

Getting to know this equipment is a big deal. The normal steam gauge instruments aren’t where they used to be and the EIS gauges don’t command the same respect - but I know they must.

tip - EIS is sent directly to iPad mini - provides everything you would need - delay is less than 1 second.

so you can keep map/charts on MFD and engine on 1 iPad and maybe approach charts on knee or yolk. (Which I do - on pax seat)

Havent worked it out yet but VNAV CALC sometimes shows a weird screen on GTN 750 where you can’t input VS or BOT b4 target just a default profile. ?.? But other times as per normal - has had a mandatory update which may explain that.

Easy to get fixated inside aircraft . On one occasion I was doing a missed and found myself at an “unusual attitude” (won’t elaborate) and had to disengage auto pilot to recover. So still unsure what I did wrong if anything  or if I have a problem with trim motor.

ok say I initiated the missed approach which the auto pilot flew.  I selected 6000 ft 800 ft/m VS and added full power.

the aircraft was in a (I assume) a rate 1 left turn but seemed to pitch up to 2000ft/min climb.

it was about now I disconnected the auto pilot to recover from an inevitable stall.

 

on another note I flew a hands off hold  with absolutely no input - could have been asleep till I ran out of fuel - not recommended.

On returning to Archerfield I was trimming but felt the yolk getting heavy. Put my hand on the trim wheel and it wasn’t moving. A bit of a twist and and started to run - think that’s what caused the unusual attitude.

something to be aware of young players.

so while I’m prattling on it’s time to remember if you are in imc or Vfr  things can go wrong outside your control (trim sticking or vac failure).

I thought some might appreciate an honest response for a new learning experience. Warts and all

Your precautionary tell sounds very familiar. When I moved to glass in 2012, it took me close to 10 hours of flying with it to feel comfortable. And this was in a plane that I had been flying IFR since 1993. Getting fixated on all the information they provide is easy to do. Once you get past that transition period, you wonder how you ever flew with steam gauges alone. 

[carusoam]

Great insight, Steve!

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Best regards,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

10 hours ago, Steve Skinner said:

So yesterday was the first time I saw the finished product.

went for a fly with Quality Avionics tech to check AH LEVEL setting - perfect

got a HDG FAIL intermittently which apparently Garmin say is interference - Still looking

Fuel flow is showing at about 220% of actual. Can’t fix with fuel calibration as it’s outside their 10% Still looking

flew 2.5 hrs yesterday with 4 gps approaches .

today 3 hrs 8 approaches.

Getting to know this equipment is a big deal. The normal steam gauge instruments aren’t where they used to be and the EIS gauges don’t command the same respect - but I know they must.

tip - EIS is sent directly to iPad mini - provides everything you would need - delay is less than 1 second.

so you can keep map/charts on MFD and engine on 1 iPad and maybe approach charts on knee or yolk. (Which I do - on pax seat)

Havent worked it out yet but VNAV CALC sometimes shows a weird screen on GTN 750 where you can’t input VS or BOT b4 target just a default profile. ?.? But other times as per normal - has had a mandatory update which may explain that.

Easy to get fixated inside aircraft . On one occasion I was doing a missed and found myself at an “unusual attitude” (won’t elaborate) and had to disengage auto pilot to recover. So still unsure what I did wrong if anything  or if I have a problem with trim motor.

ok say I initiated the missed approach which the auto pilot flew.  I selected 6000 ft 800 ft/m VS and added full power.

the aircraft was in a (I assume) a rate 1 left turn but seemed to pitch up to 2000ft/min climb.

it was about now I disconnected the auto pilot to recover from an inevitable stall.

 

on another note I flew a hands off hold  with absolutely no input - could have been asleep till I ran out of fuel - not recommended.

On returning to Archerfield I was trimming but felt the yolk getting heavy. Put my hand on the trim wheel and it wasn’t moving. A bit of a twist and and started to run - think that’s what caused the unusual attitude.

something to be aware of young players.

so while I’m prattling on it’s time to remember if you are in imc or Vfr  things can go wrong outside your control (trim sticking or vac failure).

I thought some might appreciate an honest response for a new learning experience. Warts and all

Those self induced unusual attitudes are always a pleasure to have disrupt your avionics testing  Sure wish I could come back to OZ and help you sort this puppy out!

 

[Steve Skinner]

Those self induced unusual attitudes are always a pleasure to have disrupt your avionics testing  Sure wish I could come back to OZ and help you sort this puppy out!
 

Hi Mike,
The more I think about it the more I suspect trim motor.
I would have thought the TXI wouldn’t allow excessive bank and excessive climb angle if everything was working correctly.
But I’m not sure what the limits are.
Think set at 45 deg but need to check vertical angle.
I’m flying to Melbourne on Sunday with a stop at Wagga Wagga for coffee. They have an ILS so I’ll give that a shot.
Annual is due so will be trouble shooting trim on return.
The only times in the past that the trim motor wouldn’t run (and every time) is against pitch up on a go around if not preset correctly b4 adding power. In these instances I’ve had to manually roll trim wheel whilst applying bench press weight to the yolk. It only surprised me the first time.
The engine advisory warning will be a great advantage when my parameters are correctly set (pilot programmable).
Currently due to the fuel flow being at least 220% out it keeps telling me I’ve got none.


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[Steve Skinner]

Panel whilst flying
Ignore “Heading Fail”, ( still trouble shooting)
ignore high EGT on no 3 (looks like a failed plug on right mag)
iPad on pax side showing EIS feed
TAS about 190 at 18 gph running a bit richer than normal due to Plug problem.


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[Steve Skinner]

New panel in flight.

ignore egt difference (no 3 plug, rh mag failed in flight)

Ignore “heading fail” (work in progress)

new iPad on pax side with live EIS feed

[ArtVandelay]

I would get a anti glare screen saver for the iPad.


Tom

[LANCECASPER]

I like the engine monitor display on the ipad, but not so much on the Garmin.

[Marauder]

Steve - curious. Can the engine monitor data be removed on the TXi and shown only on the iPad? If it is acting as primary I would be surprised that would be allowed.


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[donkaye]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Steve - curious. Can the engine monitor data be removed on the TXi and shown only on the iPad? If it is acting as primary I would be surprised that would be allowed.


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Not Steve, but definitely not allowed.  One of the negatives of having it on the TXi without spending the money on a separate EIS engine monitor display.  It takes up screen real estate.

[m20kmooney]

10 hours ago, Steve Skinner said:

New panel in flight.

Beautiful panel Steve! Enjoy! 

[Steve Skinner]

I like the engine monitor display on the ipad, but not so much on the Garmin.

I agree.
I think we are used to “numbers” which seem to make us more comfortable.
I mentioned in an earlier post that the EIS page didn’t seem as important as the old gauges but of course it is.
I kept looking over at the iPad to pick up the numbers.


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[Steve Skinner]

Steve - curious. Can the engine monitor data be removed on the TXi and shown only on the iPad? If it is acting as primary I would be surprised that would be allowed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

No. The EIS unit is an add on the the TXI to replace engine gauges and the TXI just bluetooth it to the iPad via 750.
Those that retain their primary or have the JPI replacement don’t need to spend the $3-5k for the EIS unit


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[Steve Skinner]

So 9 hours this week on the new new panel.
Have discovered that the “heading fail” starts not long after raising the gear and goes away when I lower the gear. So may have to move the magnamometer as it’s obviously magnetic interference.
Had Ahrs fail inbound to Tamworth on the return from Melbourne.
Message was “lost barometric altitude”
So it took what seemed like 10 seconds to figure out that the autopilot wasn’t doing what it was supposed to do and that I had a G5 with baro alt on it.
The Txi screen showed gps altitude above the X’s which was all over the place.
I took a screen shot and sent it to the avionics guy.
He said the fail certainly got Garmin’s attention
Was good practice to understand what was going on. Take off auto pilot and fly by the G5.
I think I still had wings level with auto pilot on but saw that VS and ALTc had been replaced by the 2 big red X’s.
Not having a clue what altitude you are at in controlled airspace made the heart pump for those few seconds before mentally changing to the G5.
I had been flying manually earlier in the flight with the auto pilot breaker pulled as Garmin were trouble shooting the magamometer.



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[carusoam]

Great and interesting pirep, Steve!

Good luck with the next steps.

Best regards,

-a-

[m20kmooney]

@Steve Skinner I’m wondering is yours the first txi install in a Mooney for the shop? 

[Steve Skinner]

[mention=17103]Steve Skinner[/mention] I’m wondering is yours the first txi install in a Mooney for the shop? 

Yes.
However the issues with thE AHRS are a Garmin problem.
The magnamometer is still anybody’s guess


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[m20kmooney]

On 1/30/2019 at 12:43 AM, Steve Skinner said:

Yes.
However the issues with thE AHRS are a Garmin problem.
The magnamometer is still anybody’s guess


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Very capable and beautiful panel Steve. Enjoy! I was planning to go the txi route myself but last minute decided to wait the few months till Oshkosh to see what comes out. I predict Garmin will roll out a certified G3X touch! 

Edited February 2, 2019 by m20kmooney