ILS vs LPV

[midlifeflyer]

6 hours ago, bradp said:

Here’s a good question. 

My very first wet ticket ILS approach was into CHO one night when a fog bank rolled over the field.    

Had flight visibility all the way down the runway above the fog bank (could see the red bars / Reils through he fog).  Available reported weather didn’t have the fog conditions yet. Last maybe 10 feet of the flare went into the soup and flight visibility went down to maybe 1/4-1/8 of a mile if that.  I recall being able to see a few sets of lights in my peripheral vision (200x?).  Was a bit surprised in my discovery of unexpected below minimums. In the round out and flare I thought the safer thing to do was land, which I did.  

Tower asked me the visibility and I sheepishly said something stupid like it’s right at minimums for the last 10 feet not wanting to get in trouble.  Tower called my bluff and the grumpy dude chuckles and says yeah right goodnight and something like good luck with your taxi...

 Did I pull a “technical jerry” on that one ...? 

Don't hold me to this, but given the lack of guaranteed obstruction clearance and the inherent dangers of a 0/0 takeoff (which is effectively what you would be doing at that point), I doubt the FAA would second guess your command decision to continue the landing when you suddenly lost visibility 10 feet above touchdown.

Questioning your own decision automatically makes it a non-Jerry.

[bradp]

I’m glad we’ll all do well with our 121 interviews after this thorough discussion of 91.175.  

[M20F]

On 12/25/2018 at 10:39 AM, flyboy0681 said:

Sounds like the whole thing is a judgement call.

This is why 91.3 and 91.13 exist (the two key regulations to know as a pilot).  The best example is you can fly IMC in Class G very clearly according to the regulations.  The FAA has also been clear that those who do can generally expect a 91.3 violation. 

https://www.touringmachine.com/images/ifr_checkride/IFR_Class_G.pdf

There is a better ruling involving somebody who did establish and defeat that flying in class G with no clearance while appropriately rated was legal, that person though was unsuccessful in the 91.13 argument and got a 60 day revocation.  I can’t seem to locate it though. 

[jackn]

When I was first getting into aviation, I used to watch the late Richard Collins on VHS. On one episode, while discussing minimums, he made the comment that it seems pilots have a lot more luck getting into their home bases when weather is at minimums. There was a hint of sarcasm in his tone. 

[flyboy0681]

1 minute ago, jackn said:

When I was first getting into aviation, I used to watch the late Richard Collins on VHS. On one episode, while discussing minimums, he made the comment that it seems pilots have a lot more luck getting into their home bases when weather is at minimums. There was a hint of sarcasm in his tone. 

I think there's a lot of truth to that. When I do practice approaches at airports out of my area, I fly them very well, but when heading home and I hit the IAF for my base, I fly that entire approach with incredible precision because I know every inch of it, including obstacles between the FAF and threshold. 

[Hank]

11 hours ago, bradp said:

Here’s a good question. 

My very first wet ticket ILS approach was into CHO one night when a fog bank rolled over the field.    

Had flight visibility all the way down the runway above the fog bank (could see the red bars / Reils through he fog).  Available reported weather didn’t have the fog conditions yet. Last maybe 10 feet of the flare went into the soup and flight visibility went down to maybe 1/4-1/8 of a mile if that.  I recall being able to see a few sets of lights in my peripheral vision (200x?).  Was a bit surprised in my discovery of unexpected below minimums. In the round out and flare I thought the safer thing to do was land, which I did.  

Tower asked me the visibility and I sheepishly said something stupid like it’s right at minimums for the last 10 feet not wanting to get in trouble.  Tower called my bluff and the grumpy dude chuckles and says yeah right goodnight and something like good luck with your taxi...

 Did I pull a “technical jerry” on that one ...? 

I've had that happen on two night VFR approaches into my former home field. The first time I asked my wife to turn off the landing light so I could see, and about the time she did the wheels touched, then halfway down the 3000' field we rolled into the clear. The second time I was solo, and all lights worked during preflight at dusk, but the landing light didn't come on in the pattern. Then I found fog over the runway at about the time the wheels touched . . . I stopped, turned around and back-taxied to the only runway entrance using my flashlight out the storm window, and navigated the ramp mostly by memory.

Both times the skies were clear with excellent ground visibility and no hint of fog from above or from final looking towards the runway. Despite the forecast and reported conditions, the actual weather is whatever you find out the windows . . . . I immediately ordered and installed an LED landing light after the second event, and have only turned it off twice in almost four years.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Hank

[Marauder]

I think there's a lot of truth to that. When I do practice approaches at airports out of my area, I fly them very well, but when heading home and I hit the IAF for my base, I fly that entire approach with incredible precision because I know every inch of it, including obstacles between the FAF and threshold. 

I agree. When it is IMC, I often will listen to Philly approach when I hear a plane flying the approach into my airport. Can’t tell you the number of times I have heard Philly issue a low altitude alert to a plane when they wandered slightly off of the final approach course. We have a couple of obstacles off of the course and I am sure that is what is prompting the warning.






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[Marauder]

He pulls the really bad ones eventually. Here's an annotated screen capture of the ILS I mentioned.

Here is another Jerry screw up. The new video he posted talks about setting minimums. And then he goes into his “almighty checklist” speech to give the indication that he does a full run up and completes a pre-takeoff checklist. Ironically, his newly installed clock above the TXi is showing the time when he says he is going to do the checklist and then when he says he is done. Only one minute elapsed on the clock. I can’t even do a single engine run up and complete a checklist in one minute.





Roughly 9:40 into his video.

https://youtu.be/XtXFCKMRrZg


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[midlifeflyer]

7 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

Here is another Jerry screw up. The new video he posted talks about setting minimums. And then he goes into his “almighty checklist” speech to give the indication that he does a full run up and completes a pre-takeoff checklist. Ironically, his newly installed clock above the TXi is showing the time when he says he is going to do the checklist and then when he says he is done. Only one minute elapsed on the clock. I can’t even do a single engine run up and complete a checklist in one minute.





Roughly 9:40 into his video.

https://youtu.be/XtXFCKMRrZg


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He's just really that good at it. 

[ilovecornfields]

Can’t wait to watch this one:

 

[flyboy0681]

I'm wondering if he's doing all of this on purpose just to pull your chains.

[Marauder]

Can’t wait to watch this one:
 

Pay special attention to the crosswind technique.


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[Marauder]

I'm wondering if he's doing all of this on purpose just to pull your strings.

Nah, he posts stuff and then realizes when people say how stupid or dangerous something is, pulls it. Some of it is never seen again, like the low altitude maneuvers.

The checklist issue came up a while ago and people called him on it. His reference to the “almighty checklist” was his response. And if you watch his videos, he almost always cuts away during the actual run up. Now I know why, he time travels. There is no way a full twin engine run up and pre-takeoff checklist can be run in 60 seconds. He was just not smart enough to realize his newly installed clock was showing the actual time between when he said he was going to run it and when he finished it.


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[midlifeflyer]

11 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Pay special attention to the crosswind technique.


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When you do think in terms of what the wind was doing. The worst callout from ATC in terms of gust factor is winds 330 @ 14G23. Those are also the lowest steady state and highest winds. Direction was steady at 330. If you run the calculation that makes the worst crosswind component 18 KTS. The max demonstrated crosswind component for the 414 is 19 KTS.

Jerry surprised me on this one. 

[midlifeflyer]

13 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Nah, he posts stuff and then realizes when people say how stupid or dangerous something is, pulls it. Some of it is never seen again, like the low altitude maneuvers.

The checklist issue came up a while ago and people called him on it. His reference to the “almighty checklist” was his response. And if you watch his videos, he almost always cuts away during the actual run up. Now I know why, he time travels. There is no way a full twin engine run up and pre-takeoff checklist can be run in 60 seconds. He was just not smart enough to realize his newly installed clock was showing the actual time between when he said he was going to run it and when he finished it.

 

 

I wondered about this. Some  twin pilots I asked indicated it could be done. It depends on a few things including a good flow & check regimen and how many items are done before leaving the chocks or during taxi.  Of course, that doesn't sound like Jerry.

Here's the before takeoff check from a 414 manual.  Assuming Jerry's personalized checklist follows it, the only thing which needs to take an appreciable amount of time is the runup itself. On the first flight of the day, most of the others could be done early.  But, timing myself going through the checklist and saying, "yep that's done," it took 30-40 seconds exclusive of the runup.

The question remains, what does Jerry actually do. He ends up having to punch Oakland into the box after takeoff, so clearly 8/9 were not done.

 

[Marauder]

22 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

I wondered about this. Some  twin pilots I asked indicated it could be done. It depends on a few things including a good flow & check regimen and how many items are done before leaving the chocks or during taxi.  Of course, that doesn't sound like Jerry.

Here's the before takeoff check from a 414 manual.  Assuming Jerry's personalized checklist follows it, the only thing which needs to take an appreciable amount of time is the runup itself. On the first flight of the day, most of the others could be done early.  But, timing myself going through the checklist and saying, "yep that's done," it took 30-40 seconds exclusive of the runup.

The question remains, what does Jerry actually do. He ends up having to punch Oakland into the box after takeoff, so clearly 8/9 were not done.

 

I doubt he does an autopilot check either and he is pretty dependent on it. I just tried to run your checklist and pretended to just look at the checklist items. I only got to the start of the engine run-up before the 1 minute timer went off. And I didn't set the avionics including setting the 3 altimeters in his plane from step 9.

He may have done some of the items on the ramp or on the taxiway but seeing how cavalier he is about things, I'm guessing the "almighty checklist" is not an action packed event for him.

[ilovecornfields]

12 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

Pay special attention to the crosswind technique.


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Was that a go around?! I couldn’t tell what he was doing then I saw he was landing on 33.  Seems like a nonstandard traffic pattern to say the least.

[Marauder]

Was that a go around?! I couldn’t tell what he was doing then I saw he was landing on 33.  Seems like a nonstandard traffic pattern to say the least.

Oakland has two parallel runways 28R and L as well as 33. What he did was try to land with a crosswind in 28L and then at the last second (when it became apparent he couldn’t handle the crosswind) asked for and landed on 33. You should see some of his landings on 33 when he is lined up for 28R.


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[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Was that a go around?! I couldn’t tell what he was doing then I saw he was landing on 33.  Seems like a nonstandard traffic pattern to say the least.

Towered airports with multiple runways are all about nonstandard traffic patterns. I actually did something similar to this one on a particularity windy day at KAPA in Denver (approach on 17L, land on 10).

For Jerry it's kind of standard. He parks in an area off 33 but the primary runways in use are the 28s and 30. So he will often ask for an approach on a 28 with a landing on 33.

[ilovecornfields]

I guess it was the bank angle in his low level base to final turn that disturbed me. Maybe it has more to do with the camera angle.

It’s starting to come back to me now. Used to fly the UC Berkeley flying club planes out of OAK in the late 90’s. Back when you didn’t get hit with a landing fee for flying in there...

[midlifeflyer]

27 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

I guess it was the bank angle in his low level base to final turn that disturbed me. Maybe it has more to do with the camera angle.

It’s starting to come back to me now. Used to fly the UC Berkeley flying club planes out of OAK in the late 90’s. Back when you didn’t get hit with a landing fee for flying in there...

A number of folks have pointed out concerns with his low level turn to 33. Chances are it's not as bad as shown in the camera. Mine was much higher, with a very steep slip to get down.

[Marauder]

I guess it was the bank angle in his low level base to final turn that disturbed me. Maybe it has more to do with the camera angle.
It’s starting to come back to me now. Used to fly the UC Berkeley flying club planes out of OAK in the late 90’s. Back when you didn’t get hit with a landing fee for flying in there...

Runway 33 is on the end of 28R. But it does require a bit of a steep turn to maneuver at that low altitude. The one in the video was from 28L which is even further away, so you can imagine what a turn from 28R looks like.

He has done these low approaches to the airport he flies to as well (Auburn).




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[midlifeflyer]

Here's a pretty good example. The link begins at the interesting part.

 

[Andy95W]

deleted.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Andy95W
Deleted hurtful words describing this publicity seeker.

[EricJ]

Yikes.