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Catching fuel from gascolator drain


ilovecornfields

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HTW,

Take a look at where your fuel caps engage... the fuel neck (that piece) is probably not stainless steel like later ones are...

The back side of the part has a tendency to rust where the sheet metal got formed... the sharper the bend, the more the oxidation effect is...

My 65C finally rusted through where the fuel caps were... the little black bits would collect on the bottom of the gascolator each year leaving a rust colored trail...

All time before MS.   Those SS parts were kind of expensive, and installation was expected to be astronomical...  realistically they are just a good sheet metal part replacing a rusty old part... using proper sealant and technique...

Look to see if your fuel caps are mounted into a shiny smooth piece of SS, not a grayish rough semi painted piece of metal...

Best regards,

-a-

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I'm curious how many have actually found water in the tank sumps. Maybe it's because I live on the west coast, but I've sumped thousands of times and I can only recall finding water -- and a small amount at that -- once (in Alaska 30 years ago). Now, I am NOT advocating skipping this preflight ritual -- I still sump tanks. I'm just curious about the prevalence of water.

Regarding runnups: I fly for a large, well-respected 135 operator (with a very good safety record) and our FAA-approved procedure calls for the mag check, prop check and carb heat check on the first flight of the day only.

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20 hours ago, carusoam said:

6) I don’t like to return fuel back to the tank...

  • No moisture is pretty visible, some moisture, I used to decant and return to the tanks... outside birds might decant a lot...
  • dirt specs aren’t so visible when they are there...
  • Spilling fuel across the wing seems to be my specialty...
  • The aroma of fuel seems to follow me around for hours... no sinks around my hangar... no baby wipes for decades...
  • Chemical handling technique... Once it has left the container, it is no longer a known entity... never put it back because a contaminated sample will now contaminate the entire container...
  • Now you have to keep that fuel cup extra clean...

PP thoughts only. Not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

Removing a fuel sample from the tank contaminates it? How is it then not contaminated flowing past the quick drain in its way to the engine? Or do you leave your sample cup on a chain outside? Mine is clean enough that the ten seconds the fuel spends in it while I hold the cup and peer at the fuel does not contaminate the contents. If the fuel sample is contaminated, it's because the contents of the tank are contaminated. Pouring it back in is simple, done while sticking the tank to determine its fill level for the flight. 

  • Open fuel cap
  • Dip stick, check level, remove thumb so that pipette drains back into tank
  • Sump tank
  • Hold cup in front of cowling to judge color and look for clear water at the bottom
  • Sniff to verify it's avgas
  • Pour back into tank
  • Seat and close cap

Despite twelve years' flying around the Ohio Valley and the Southeast, I have never found wafer in the tanks of my Mooney (even after spending sevetal days tied down outside in daily thunderstorms at the beach).

As a student pilot, I did one time find several cups with water from one tank in the FBO's 172, the first flight after a couple days' heavy rain. But that's all . . .

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22 hours ago, apenney said:

If the gas looks clear why can't you put it back in?

 

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:31 PM, ilovecornfields said:

Since reading this thread I’ve started to use it in my coffee!

I think it’s easy to understand why you wouldn’t sump your drain. If you’re alive and reading Mooneyspace, then it probably hasn’t happened to you yet. Come to think of it, a lot of things we check for are pretty low probability events. I’ve only found a couple of things on preflight that made me not fly so I could probably skip that most of the time. Draining fuel - I’ve never pulled anything off other then 100 LL so I could probably skip that. And let’s be honest - checking the weather is a waste a lot of the time as well since most of it will show up on the iPad once you’re in the air. And let’s not forget to mention you can get in the air a lot faster if you skip that silly runup....

Wow! Think of all the time I just saved!

P.S. - I don’t know how to do the green font thing so please imagine a green font as you’re reading the above.

 

Don't forget the money savings.  You save about 15-25 cents a every flight. 

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33 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I'm curious how many have actually found water in the tank sumps. Maybe it's because I live on the west coast, but I've sumped thousands of times and I can only recall finding water -- and a small amount at that -- once (in Alaska 30 years ago). Now, I am NOT advocating skipping this preflight ritual -- I still sump tanks. I'm just curious about the prevalence of water.

Regarding runnups: I fly for a large, well-respected 135 operator (with a very good safety record) and our FAA-approved procedure calls for the mag check, prop check and carb heat check on the first flight of the day only.

Skip

When I bought my airplane the center rubber seals on the cap levers were crap, and previous to me taking possession it had been left outside in a storm in Nevada and accumulated a lot of water in the tanks.   It got drained and flown a fair amount after that before I got it, but there were occasional water samples from both the sumps and the gascolator, some of which I took personally.

I subsequently picked it up at Maxwell's in TX, and I think the FBO washed it overnight because a check pilot had left the caps loose and the wings got blue stains flying the previous evening.   When I went to leave with it the next morning the stains were gone, and I had to take a few samples out of each tank sump before I got some with no water.    Flew it back to AZ and every time I checked the sumps there was a little water, and I'd have to take a few samples before I got one with no water.

This, getting a little water out each time, went on for a while until it quit on takeoff one day just as the gear finished cycling up.  I was fortunate that there was enough runway and taxiway left that I got back on the ground without bending anything.   By the time I got stopped it was idling fine and I taxied back to the hangar.  Rich, @N201MKTurbo, told me to grab the wingtips and shake like crazy for a good while on each wing.   I got some more water out right after that, but none since.

So it can take a while for water to work out from the various parts of the tanks.   Given that I used to see it regularly and haven't seen any for a long time I think I finally got rid of all of it, but it took a while.   Never assume anything.

I dump the sumped fuel into a little 2 gal jug that I keep in the hangar and dump it at our hazardous material station when it gets full.   I check the bottom of the jug and, no, I ain't dumping that back in my airplane.  I don't know what all that crap is that accumulates in the bottom of the jug, I'm told probably mostly deteriorating tank sealant, but there's a reason GAT jars were invented when it became uncouth to just dump the samples on the ground.

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1 hour ago, Hank said:

Removing a fuel sample from the tank contaminates it?

This comes from the catch container not being clean...

My fuel cup roles around the back shelf and isn’t very well cared for.  It is a collector of all kinds of dirt...

It wouldn’t be a problem if the cup was well cared for.

That would take some addition thought and effort and maybe a ziplock bag.  :)

Best regards,

-a-

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1 hour ago, EricJ said:

When I bought my airplane the center rubber seals on the cap levers were crap, and previous to me taking possession it had been left outside in a storm in Nevada and accumulated a lot of water in the tanks.   It got drained and flown a fair amount after that before I got it, but there were occasional water samples from both the sumps and the gascolator, some of which I took personally.

I subsequently picked it up at Maxwell's in TX, and I think the FBO washed it overnight because a check pilot had left the caps loose and the wings got blue stains flying the previous evening.   When I went to leave with it the next morning the stains were gone, and I had to take a few samples out of each tank sump before I got some with no water.    Flew it back to AZ and every time I checked the sumps there was a little water, and I'd have to take a few samples before I got one with no water.

This, getting a little water out each time, went on for a while until it quit on takeoff one day just as the gear finished cycling up.  I was fortunate that there was enough runway and taxiway left that I got back on the ground without bending anything.   By the time I got stopped it was idling fine and I taxied back to the hangar.  Rich, @N201MKTurbo, told me to grab the wingtips and shake like crazy for a good while on each wing.   I got some more water out right after that, but none since.

So it can take a while for water to work out from the various parts of the tanks.   Given that I used to see it regularly and haven't seen any for a long time I think I finally got rid of all of it, but it took a while.   Never assume anything.

I dump the sumped fuel into a little 2 gal jug that I keep in the hangar and dump it at our hazardous material station when it gets full.   I check the bottom of the jug and, no, I ain't dumping that back in my airplane.  I don't know what all that crap is that accumulates in the bottom of the jug, I'm told probably mostly deteriorating tank sealant, but there's a reason GAT jars were invented when it became uncouth to just dump the samples on the ground.

Wow thanks for sharing. I think I would unscrew the sumps and drain everything out of there. There still can be water below where the sumps pick up.

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11 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Wow thanks for sharing. I think I would unscrew the sumps and drain everything out of there. There still can be water below where the sumps pick up.

That had been done previously.   There can still be water sitting behind ribs that doesn't get drained, and that eventually (and apparently sometimes gradually) can work it's way down to the pickup/sump area.   I think maybe if they'd shaken the wings when they were draining it it would have helped.

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3 hours ago, EricJ said:

That had been done previously.   There can still be water sitting behind ribs that doesn't get drained, and that eventually (and apparently sometimes gradually) can work it's way down to the pickup/sump area.   I think maybe if they'd shaken the wings when they were draining it it would have helped.

Fly through turbulent air with half tanks. Whatever is in them will get thoroughly mixed up and sent out the pickup tube . . .  

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  • 2 weeks later...
6 hours ago, Diesel 10 said:

I made this adjustable height stand out of scrap PVC pipe.  It holds a GATS type sampler under the gascolator so you can pull the ring single handed.

gascolator.jpg

Rather than that, I just push the gats jar up into the gascolator, which has the same effect as pulling the ring in the cockpit. 

Unless we have different makes of gascolator- which is a possibility.

Edited by M016576
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25 minutes ago, Junkman said:

MUCH less elegant, but it works. I have a roll of duct tape in my x-c kit that I lay on the ground and put the GATS jar in on windy days to keep it from blowing over.

You're right, that's pretty ghetto, but I like it! :D

I usually pull the drain in the initial cabin check part of my preflight, with the hangar doors still closed to keep wind from being an issue.  It also means the hangar is dark enough I can check all my nav lights by looking at the hangar walls without having to run around the plane or have someone else.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/25/2018 at 9:07 PM, M016576 said:

Rather than that, I just push the gats jar up into the gascolator, which has the same effect as pulling the ring in the cockpit. 

Unless we have different makes of gascolator- which is a possibility.

The gascolator on my '92 M20J MSE doesn't work that way. I need to pull the ring on a cabin floor to get it to drain.

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On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 4:02 PM, Junkman said:

MUCH less elegant, but it works. I have a roll of duct tape in my x-c kit that I lay on the ground and put the GATS jar in on windy days to keep it from blowing over.

IMG_2278.jpeg

IMG_2281.jpeg

IMG_2283.jpeg

I do something like this.  Problem is wind.  Roll of duct tape is good, but the wind blows the gas stream and I've had some of it miss the funnel.  I have a couple plastic closed bins from Home Depot that hold various stuff (you know, the stuff that you always carry in the back of the plane. A screwdriver, a couple other tools, spare gas catch, funnel, quart of oil, wheel chocks, some rags in one, various other cleaning supplies in the other.  Makes it easy to alter the load in the back by pulling a bin or both bins if I'm just doing a sightseeing flight and returning to base without landing.)  Anyway, I can stack the two bins, put the shorty funnel in the catch can, and it just nicely fits under the gascolator.  Not quite wedges in, but keeps everything nice and stable and completely eliminates any wind mess.

In my hangar I have a second catch, funnel, and bucket and I put the catch on the upturned bucket.  No wind in the hangar, the bucket makes it easier to line up so I don't spill gas on my hangar floor.  That die doesn't go away, like, forever.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Thanks for all the great ideas! After seeing what people were doing, I realized it was beyond my technical abilities. Fortunately, I knew a professional builder with several years experience so I gave him my specification and he built a stand for me to place under the gascolstor drain. Tried it out today and didn’t spill a drop!

In the end it was pretty expensive, but apparently he just started taking flying lessons and that’s expensive too, so at least it’s for a good cause.00DF3E8E-385F-4408-AB39-D61D7D16C2D3.thumb.jpeg.aa30dfe3e5432580f4b000d813c22c83.jpeg

185C9DB3-436E-4793-B530-DCA06C08F6AB.jpeg

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