JoeC Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Hi all, As you probably guessed, I'm buying an M20K from AAA in San Antonio. My brother and co-owner was going to do the test flight with me but his work schedule changed and he can't be there. Is there someone with K time who can help me eval this bird? I'm PPL but don't have the endorsements or experience to fly this one solo and make a good judgement. My schedule is limited so some time around Dec 20th-22nd would work best. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlmorris Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 I have over 3000 hours in the k and live in boerne. Own a 262 conversion. Skydancerdave@gmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpaul Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Looks Dave may have this covered, but just in case Paul aka @gsxrpilot is in that area with a 252. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Thanks Dave! I'll send you an email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 I expect that you'll just go fly it with either Jimmy or David in the right seat. I don't expect they or their insurance will allow it to leave the ground without one of them in the plane. So I guess I'm saying you don't need another pilot. If I'm wrong, and they will let you fly it, I'm happy to help as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 That's a good point. Thanks Paul. I'll call Jimmy today and find out. AAA has a great reputation but I have no basis for comparison to another Mooney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 After you fly that one, then you can come over and we'll go fly mine. That will give you a good comparison. ;-) I'm in Austin with the plane in Smithville (84R) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnel Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) Bought my K from AAA earlier in the year. Jimmy or Dave will be in the plane when you test fly it. You'll also need a conversion once you buy and again they have access to a bunch of great folks. I did my conversion training with Brian Lloyd who lives across from AAA on the field and who flew his 231 around the world. My pre-buy was done by JD at SWTA - on the same airfield where gsxrpilot is based - 30min flight from AAA. In short, you're in Mooney mecca. Edited December 5, 2018 by pwnel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 6, 2018 Report Share Posted December 6, 2018 What do you think a test flight is going to accomplish? Do you have a particular list? Or are you just trying to determine if this plane fits your expectations...? Fly with David, go for a ride... David can tell you what is working and what is not... but, that is not very independent... When you want to know that it is flying the way it should be, and all the nav/coms are working... that is part of an independent PPI... A good resource for that would be DMax... unless the maintenance logs are full up with DMax signatures... Go right to Transition Training... what’s in your plan for this? My approach to buying a plane is more like a business buying a used machine... putting it through all the paces... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 6, 2018 Report Share Posted December 6, 2018 14 hours ago, JoeC said: but I have no basis for comparison to another Mooney. Few people have all the skills and the insurance to match. Fortunately this service can be purchased... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted December 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2018 Thanks for all the advice. I will be getting a PPI and transition training. The test flight is just one step in my purchase. I'm looking for anything that is a feel but won't show up in the inspection report. Every plane has it's own history and my reason for asking for help with a test flight is to see if this airplane is typical or has something that is not typical and going to be a pain over the next 10 years. I've frequently heard Mooneys have a different feel from other makes and if I jump in and it's doing something that's unusual, I don't want to shrug it off as something that's just new to me. I figured that there are experienced M20K pilots here who wouldn't mind flying on my dime to give their opinion and have no stake in if I buy it or not. Jimmy and AAA have been great and very helpful though the process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted December 6, 2018 Report Share Posted December 6, 2018 You are correct, there are quite a few K's in this area. While it would be an unusual situation for one of us to test fly the plane for you, (likely you'd be riding in the back seat while one of us flew the plane with Jimmy in the front seats), assuming you're in the area, you should ride with a few of us in our K's. Then you can compare. Having said that, Brian Lloyd is on the field at Kestrel, and owns a K that he flew around the world. For a fee, it could probably be arranged for him to fly that plane. And he certainly knows as much about K's as anyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astroman Posted December 7, 2018 Report Share Posted December 7, 2018 19 hours ago, carusoam said: What do you think a test flight is going to accomplish? Do you have a particular list? Or are you just trying to determine if this plane fits your expectations...? Fly with David, go for a ride... David can tell you what is working and what is not... but, that is not very independent... When you want to know that it is flying the way it should be, and all the nav/coms are working... that is part of an independent PPI... A good resource for that would be DMax... unless the maintenance logs are full up with DMax signatures... Go right to Transition Training... what’s in your plan for this? My approach to buying a plane is more like a business buying a used machine... putting it through all the paces... Best regards, -a- I don't think any of us would even buy a cheap car without at least driving it around the block once to see how we like it, with or without the salesman. Making sure it's the plane you want, before plunking down a sizeable sum of money, is reason enough. Then it's on to the ppi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 7, 2018 Report Share Posted December 7, 2018 Welcome aboard @Astroman, The reason for my question is the terminology of the asker...Unfortunately, my questions weren’t very well worded... To buy a used plane, most pilots will be interested In a few things... 1) Is this plane the right model for me? (Personal preference) 2) Does this plane fly like the other planes of the same model? (Proper rigging) 3) Is there anything in this plane not working or set-up properly? (Old suspension parts, or nav com equipment inop) I understand the question being asked... I just can’t write well enough to get the point across.... The first thing on the list is going for a flight with the sales guy.... The second requires an independent opinion from somebody familiar with the flight characteristics of the model. The third requires a PPI at a knowledgable shop. There is nothing wrong with taking this stuff on your own, or partially following this list, or going all in to take it to somebody that does this for a living... It is all up to the buyer to know his level of risk tolerance... it was my intention to point out how other people handle the risks... There is a complete range of risk takers, from those that buy brand new with a warranty, to those that buy a basket case and have the ability to rebuild the machine from the ground up... The cool thing about buying from AAA... They know all the details of all the Mooneys... they have a variety of Mooney models at their facility... they don’t mind educating their buyers, and non-buyers, in all things Mooney... Go get the first thing checked off the list... go fly a Mooney! If anyone follows my experience... I learned about M20Cs while living in Dallas, talked to David about many details... a few years later I bought an M20C... A decade later I was sitting with David and Jimmy again, purchasing the O... Its been a 20year run. Go visit AAA... where Mooney knowledge runs deep! How did I do the second time? Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astroman Posted December 7, 2018 Report Share Posted December 7, 2018 1 hour ago, carusoam said: Welcome aboard @Astroman, The reason for my question is the terminology of the asker...Unfortunately, my questions weren’t very well worded... To buy a used plane, most pilots will be interested In a few things... 1) Is this plane the right model for me? (Personal preference) 2) Does this plane fly like the other planes of the same model? (Proper rigging) 3) Is there anything in this plane not working or set-up properly? (Old suspension parts, or nav com equipment inop) I understand the question being asked... I just can’t write well enough to get the point across.... The first thing on the list is going for a flight with the sales guy.... The second requires an independent opinion from somebody familiar with the flight characteristics of the model. The third requires a PPI at a knowledgable shop. There is nothing wrong with taking this stuff on your own, or partially following this list, or going all in to take it to somebody that does this for a living... It is all up to the buyer to know his level of risk tolerance... it was my intention to point out how other people handle the risks... There is a complete range of risk takers, from those that buy brand new with a warranty, to those that buy a basket case and have the ability to rebuild the machine from the ground up... The cool thing about buying from AAA... They know all the details of all the Mooneys... they have a variety of Mooney models at their facility... they don’t mind educating their buyers, and non-buyers, in all things Mooney... Go get the first thing checked off the list... go fly a Mooney! If anyone follows my experience... I learned about M20Cs while living in Dallas, talked to David about many details... a few years later I bought an M20C... A decade later I was sitting with David and Jimmy again, purchasing the O... Its been a 20year run. Go visit AAA... where Mooney knowledge runs deep! How did I do the second time? Best regards, -a- I'm a long time listener, first time caller! Well done rephrasing your answer and you are exactly right. The OP will do well following your model, (and I believe that is what he is planning). The problem as I see it is finding someone in the area to do the ppi, who hasn't already recently maintained that plane. That bird is like the town bicycle! (Or my first wife maybe?) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted December 7, 2018 Report Share Posted December 7, 2018 In all seriousness, there's nothing magical about finding an A&P who's not worked on the plane previously. In fact, if the plane has been regularly maintained by one of the very reputable shops in the area such as Maxwell or SWTA, they will have some very detailed information that a complete newbie might not find in the course of a pre-buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted December 7, 2018 Report Share Posted December 7, 2018 When you need your transition training and HP&Complex endorsements, feel free to give me a call. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 7, 2018 Report Share Posted December 7, 2018 Speaking of skills and experience.... Parker has both. Including ownership skills of one of the nicest Ks around for a while. Best regards, -a- 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted December 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) Thanks everyone for the good advice. It's both exciting and daunting to buy my first airplane! I'll be PM'ing a couple of you Edited December 11, 2018 by JoeC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 How is your schedule going Joe? Did you get the M20K locked down with AAA? There are a bunch of people around MS buying planes lately.... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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