Insight G1 on M20j Help

[201Steve]

Howdy folks,

I am the proud new owner of a 77 J model. First airplane and getting into all the nitty gritty. The AC came with an insight G1 engine monitor. The insight material all has emboldened, a disclaimer that "THIS THING IS ONLY MEANT FOR CARB'd ENGINES AND IF YOU REALLY WANT TO LEAN CORRECTLY YOU NEED A G2" That said, I have a couple of general inquires as well as specific.

-Is it accurate to say you can't "really" lean correctly without fuel flow?

-I feel like they are more or less saying the G1 is useless in leaning LOP/ROP without fuel flow, there wording makes me feel that way. Any truth?

-If LOP/ROP is simply a measurement of degrees from peak EGT, why would it matter what fuel flow is?

-Does anyone have experience with G1 that can give me a part by part process how they lean? Specifcally, how to use the reset function and where do you "start"

 

THanks for any help/feedback!!!

[carusoam]

Are you familiar with engine leaning in your 201?

Any engine monitor is going to be better than the single EGT, the plane came with...  insight build pretty modern equipment...

Get to the level of measuring your GAMI spread, you are going to want a FF meter with that..

Not running out of fuel... FF and a totalizer is the next step up...

Can you read the G1 manual? (Do you need a copy)

I am not getting the same feeling you are...

http://www.insightavionics.com/bestg1.htm

But, if you are not familiar with leaning a fuel injected engine, get familiar...

You can always call the engine monitor people they often give you a few minutes.  How many minutes do you need?

Go to the insight web site. Read the specs of the equipment they offer.  See what one you have.  Determine which one you want... or send it back to get it set up the way you need...

If it came from a plane with a carb... it probably has an extra TC for carb temp...  

Best regards,

-a-

 

[gsxrpilot]

The secret to running LOP well, is to know spread between the first cylinder to peak and the last cylinder to peak. If, by chance, you can get the last cylinder to peak and get to say 25° past peak, and the engine is still running smooth, you're good to go. Determining first and last to peak and how far past peak you are, can all be done with that G1. But if you're not able to get all cylinders past peak with the engine still running smooth, you'll want to know the spread between first to peak and last to peak.

That spread is measured in gallons per hour. So without fuel flow, you've basically no way to measure the spread and therefore no way to troubleshoot LOP operations.

 

[carusoam]

One thing you could use in lieu of having FF meter... is a theory of relativity... not THE theory of relativity, but similar...

Imagine if you would...

1) Let’s say you are in cruise...

2) You know how far out to pull the mixture knob to get in the neighborhood of the peak... so you go there...

3) You begin twisting the knob, somewhat slowly to see the first cylinder to peak... put a chalk /grease pencil mark on the mixture knob at the top... count the degrees of rotation of the knob to see all four cylinders peak...

4) If the first to peak and last to peak is in the same 360° of rotation of the mixture knob, that is pretty close... if one is far from peaking with the other three... you have relatively found the outlier, without a FF meter...!

5) from experience around here, something gums up the works... a deposit forms in the fuel injector and inhibits flow... the slowed flow causes an early peak... the extra fuel shows up in the other three injectors...

6) Ask your friends with a similar engine and a FF gauge...how many GPH do you see @20”MP before and after one rotation of the mixture knob...?

7) Relatively speaking, how many mixture knob rotations does it take to go from first peak to last?

I would rather have a FF gauge...

PP dream, not an actual procedure. Not from a CFI or mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Igor_U]

As GSXRPILOT said, with no FF you wouldn't know your GAMI spread (read about it) however I run successfully LOP for years with 4 channel CHT/EGT my plane originally came with.

our Lycoming IO360 run very well LOP with stock injectors and as long as I was high enough (or less then 70-70% power) to be out of GAMI's "red box" I had no issues. Of course, FF gives you more info and makes it easy as I just set the FF without really worrying how far LOP I am while in the past I had to find richest running cylinder and get it on the lean side for cruse flight...

You might want to research if Insight has a trade in program and upgrade your G1.

Regards,

[markejackson02]

15 hours ago, Stephen Floyd said:

Howdy folks,

I am the proud new owner of a 77 J model. First airplane and getting into all the nitty gritty. The AC came with an insight G1 engine monitor. The insight material all has emboldened, a disclaimer that "THIS THING IS ONLY MEANT FOR CARB'd ENGINES AND IF YOU REALLY WANT TO LEAN CORRECTLY YOU NEED A G2" That said, I have a couple of general inquires as well as specific.

-Is it accurate to say you can't "really" lean correctly without fuel flow?

-I feel like they are more or less saying the G1 is useless in leaning LOP/ROP without fuel flow, there wording makes me feel that way. Any truth?

-If LOP/ROP is simply a measurement of degrees from peak EGT, why would it matter what fuel flow is?

-Does anyone have experience with G1 that can give me a part by part process how they lean? Specifcally, how to use the reset function and where do you "start"

 

THanks for any help/feedback!!!

I have on in my 77 J and it works perfectly fine for leaning.  I lean 50 LOP for putzing around the neighborhood get 9GPH and 100 ROP up high if I want to get somewhere.  I have a separate Shadin FF of dubious accuracy.  You will be fine without the FF.

[kris_adams]

Stephen congrats on your new bird! Where are you based? any pics?  Sorry if I missed this on another thread.  -Kris

[201Steve]

@Kris_Adams 

[MB65E]

I think G1 is the single best upgrade for any airplane. 

Upgrade to whatever you like but operationally the G1 provides what I need to see. The device is way better than the old red lcd, -601,-602,-604 guagws in the past. I really like mine. 

-Matt

[carusoam]

[gsxrpilot]

8 hours ago, MB65E said:

I think G1 is the single best upgrade for any airplane. 

Upgrade to whatever you like but operationally the G1 provides what I need to see. The device is way better than the old red lcd, -601,-602,-604 guagws in the past. I really like mine. 

-Matt

The G1/G2/G3 are all so much better than the entry level monitors from either EI or JPI. I can't imagine anyone spending good money on a UGB16 or an EDM700 when you could buy the G1 or G2 for the same money and have a modern full color, easy to read, display. And the best part is the data logging. No cables to connect, or even usb stick to forget at home. Its always logging to an SD card built into the face of the unit. And the SD card has enough space to log probably 4000 hours of flight time. So double anyone's TBO.

[kris_adams]

Nice looking 201 Stephen!

[1964-M20E]

If I remember correctly the G1 and G2 are essentially the same.  The G2 allows for recording events on an SD card not sure about the G1.  The G2 shows you how many degrees LOP or ROP you are with changing colors indicating LOP or ROP.  I think these are the only 2 big things the G1 lacks from the G2.

If you had the original GEM from Insight you didn't even get actual temperature just relational bar graphs representing temperatures.

You can still run LOP you just need to watch it a little closer and find where peak is and then go from there. 

I put the G2 in mine a few years ago.

 

Oh make sure it is connected to the avionics buss.  I had to send mine in and the processor changed.

 

 

[201Steve]

Thanks to all for the feedback! Hang in there with me. Ive got a lot of new elements. I’ll have some to give back at some point! 

[201Steve]

Also, I'm based at KSSI  (St. Simons Island, GA)