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Any J's in New England (MA) I can check out?


Steve_B

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3 hours ago, Steve_B said:

Thanks Ross.  I have read about sitting lower to the floor and being closer to the panel which is one of my reasons for wanting to get into one before purchasing.

Yeah. Interior dimensions are awfully similar, but seating position is quite a bit different.

They're both very flyable, so unless you have frequent passengers with mobility issues, I can't imagine that seating position would be a factor in your decision.

(Ime the Piper seats are easier to access for those with mobility issues, but neither is as good as a Cessna with a step stool.)

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38 minutes ago, carusoam said:

It helps to define your mission as much as possible... type of flying you do, not just how big is your back seat?

Distances covered, POBs, Flying In IMC, over mountains, crossing lakes... East coast only... just to grandma’s with the kids... that kind of thing.

Yes, I have defined my mission.  Most of my flying will be below 10K and more local (~1hr or so)/islands off the Cape mixed in with some trip out to Burlington, ON.  Taking friends over to the islands occasionally and other scenic sites will be part of it. 

I have been getting the wife more on board with flying (getting to the Vineyard in 45 mins with no traffic/ferry was a nice carrot :D).  Getting over to see friends in Burlington in a Mooney is an easy weekend trip

I don't want or need a turbo.  Truth be told, an Arrow or even a fixed gear machine would probably fit most of my missions but I want complex and the Mooney just looks great.

 

53 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

For that price I would look at something like this:

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/28161547/1967-mooney-m20f-exec-21?dlr=1&pcid=17527&crmid=614667&if=1

 

Personally I would add a G5 HSI before starting of your instrument training.

ADSB, good autopilot, little less than your price range, but you can use the savings for a future engine overhaul.

Thanks for the advise on the G5 HSI.  Not a hard requirement on a purchase and something I could add once acquired.

As for that plane, I looked at it but I have to honest, my wife doesn't like red planes and if that is the only criteria she has for or me purchasing one (she agrees on the color), I'm not gonna argue that one.

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3 minutes ago, toto said:

Yeah. Interior dimensions are awfully similar, but seating position is quite a bit different.

They're both very flyable, so unless you have frequent passengers with mobility issues, I can't imagine that seating position would be a factor in your decision.

(Ime the Piper seats are easier to access for those with mobility issues, but neither is as good as a Cessna with a step stool.)

Thanks toto.  Mobility issues are not an issue (at least not yet but we are getting older :)).  

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Bob, that is a beautiful plane/platform.  I came across it while reading other threads here on MS and I love what you have done to it.  I'm open to doing any and all upgrades myself (when I say "Myself" what I really mean is I buy the components and a very good friend of mine, who is an IA will will work with me on the installs for coffee and PIC time).  My main reason for wanting a minimum is that I want to fly it and not have it down for upgrades right away as I want to get my IFR.  My plan is to have the keys to a plane come springtime so I'm looking now as I know it takes time for the "right" one to come along.
I'll probably get in touch with all american but was hoping (probably unrealistic) to find one within a short GA flight of MA so we (my IA friend and I) can do a prebuy locally vs having to hire a service and/or fly commercially to do one. 
-Steve


With the budget you have, you should be able to find something decent. Just keep an open mind. Newer doesn’t always mean better, especially if the owner has failed to keep the plane maintained. There are a few vintage (pre-J) models like Bob’s out there. And as Bob pointed out, many have speed mods that if nothing else, improves the aesthetics of the plane.


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1 hour ago, Marauder said:

 


With the budget you have, you should be able to find something decent. Just keep an open mind. Newer doesn’t always mean better, especially if the owner has failed to keep the plane maintained. There are a few vintage (pre-J) models like Bob’s out there. And as Bob pointed out, many have speed mods that if nothing else, improves the aesthetics of the plane.


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Thanks and I agree that newer doesn't mean better and it's all about how it was maintained.  In addition to the criteria above I'd like to get a mid time or lower engine but  I'm planning to keep an "insurance" budget for a rebuild out of the gate just in case.  I believe that if the previous owner has a record of oil analysis and the prebuy inspection shows good maintenance, it shouldn't be an issue but as they say, you never know.

Given the feedback, I'm definitely expanding my search criteria.  Still need to get my butt into one though.

-Steve

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9 hours ago, carusoam said:

Research trips can make a lot of sense...

Visit a local MSC to see various Mooneys, they may have some for sale... or rent.

Visit AAA.  All American.  Many Mooneys for sale in one place.

Get familiar with the value of a PPI.

best regards,

-a-

I looked and I see there's an MSC in Maine so that's a fun day trip and one I'll probably do soon and check them out. 

I know about All American now from Bob but who/where is AAA?  I assumed they were different acronyms for the same place but I guess not. Flying down to Texas for a weekend is probably not a trip I want to do.  If they have a plane I'm really interested in and a PPI looks good, I'd do it with the intentions of flying the plane back home.  I"m definitely seeing more Mooney'e (and a lot of other brands) in Florida and Texas so I"ll probably end up buying remotely which isn't really what I want to do (more out of convenience).

Definitely going to do a PPI.  My IA friend is not real familiar with Mooney's so while he and I will do an inspection, I plan to hire someone familiar with Mooney's to do one.  I started to look at PPI sites online but haven't seen anything regarding reviews (I haven't looked very hard yet either).  Anyone have a suggestion?

We are heading to Florida today for the week (Captiva) so I may take a half day and see what's around Ft Myers that I can check out.

BTW, This is a great forum.

-Steve

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Steve,

All American Aircraft... AKA Jimmy and David... AKA AAA... Purveyors of fine Mooney Aircraft... In TX...

Captiva is a really nice place. Very short grass runway there...

Florida has Premier Aircraft, a Mooney sales outlet... unfortunately, I have never visited...

Florida has a lot of GA...   MS has a Florida pilot’s section...

Best regards,

-a-

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4 hours ago, Vno said:

If you are still looking/needing to sit in one in December, I'd be happy to show mine when I return. Or if you are in the Killington, VT/RUT area you can stop by and see it.

Brian

Thank you Brian.  I will probably take you up on that regardless as I wouldn't mind seeing a couple and talk to a few owners.  I'll PM you in December when it looks like a nice weekend to head up North.

-Steve

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2 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

The best piece of advice I can give you is prebuy the owner as much as you prebuy the plane. This will speak volumes about the plane without ever seeing it. Right Rod?

Great advise.  Not much different than buying a used car.

 

-Steve

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Anyone want to comment on this plane?  Meets all my criteria except the engine time is a little higher than I would like.  I didn't really want to purchase remotely but I don't think I have a choice at this point.  Also, any PPI recommendations in this area? 

image.png.df73a82dd4bcb10edf6d19c5e6a84734.png

-Steve

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On 11/18/2018 at 2:29 PM, Steve_B said:

 My preference is to keep it to a mid 70's or newer plane but I'm certainly open to others.

I still want to get inside one before moving forward with any acquisition though.

-Steve

I wouldn't necessarily limit it to mid 70s or newer unless there's something in particular you're wanting/avoiding.  I'm sure I'm missing some things, but I believe the panel changed, the retractable/fixed step changed, and electric/manual gear and flaps.  IMO, I wouldn't let a great 60's model slip by without looking it over.  

If you're looking at J's, I think they're great.  Although I own a C, the J's have always been my pick for value/performance/utility.

Sorry I'm not closer.  If you were passing through middle GA, I'd definitely take you up for a test run.  

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Buying remotely gets expensive fast...

1) See It before committing to a PPI?

2) PPIs are expensive, the plane should have a high probability of passing, before going through this process...

3) second trip to pick the plane up should have transition training linked to it... and a delivery flight home...

4) this can take a few weeks to actually make happen.

Two trips, lots of expense, and can still fail to meet expectations...

 

I combined the first visit, with a business trip elsewhere in the state... the risk being time elapsing and other buyers...

Be familiar with negotiations... writing a purchase agreement.  You want to move forwards with the buying process without the risk of somebody else offering to pay more.

Best regards,

-a-

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36 minutes ago, Steve_B said:

Anyone want to comment on this plane?  Meets all my criteria except the engine time is a little higher than I would like.  I didn't really want to purchase remotely but I don't think I have a choice at this point.  Also, any PPI recommendations in this area? 

image.png.df73a82dd4bcb10edf6d19c5e6a84734.png

-Steve

The paint appears to be in great shape but I believe there are better choices out there from an avionics perspective.  I've seen one out there with a GTN750 (you'll not regret that) and an Aspen1000Pro plus some.  Paint's not in great shape though.  Cheaper to paint than to upgrade avionics. 

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On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 4:28 AM, Steve_B said:

Hi All,

New member here and I'm in the market for my first plane.  I have been researching different planes and I keep coming back to a Mooney (they just look great).  Based on my research, it looks like a J model would fit the bill but I'd really like to actually sit (any maybe fly) in one before I pull the trigger.  I have been flying an Arrow in the club I belong to and it is on the short list of potential acquisitions but a Mooney is faster (and, IMO, just looks better).  My concern is around the rear cabin space and how that compares to an Arrow.  I know there are a lot of myths out there about Mooney's but my research shows they are on par with an Arrow for cabin size (at least up front).  I can't find any data on the rear cabin space.  I won't be carrying rear seat passengers (except our dog) very often, and if I do, it will be for short flights but I don't want my passengers to be overly uncomfortable.  I have looked in an E model and that looks really tight in the back.

 Are there any J's near me that I could meet up with (I'll buy lunch) so I can check it out?

Thanks,

Steve

Aside from what's already been said, the J & K models are significantly more spacious than an Arrow.  I used to fly a Cherokee, and the back seat only works if your passengers have no legs.  In Mooneys, the cabin floor space is significantly longer.  I'm 5'8", and I've loaded two tall people (6'0" and 6'2") in the back seat, and there was plenty of knee room for them to play footsies (they are those annoying kind of people that way).

With two people only, there is plenty of cabin space for my wife to move back and forth between the co-pilot seat and the back seat, where she can stretch out.  If she sits in the back right seat and I move the co-pilot seat forwards, she has a ridiculous amount of room..  Personally, I find the back seat super comfortable, and a good place if I need to take a nap in the hangar.

Loading the plane is the tricky part, since the seats are low to the floor and there aren't too many things to hold on to, and that may be where a lot of the myths about cabin space come from.

J models run in the $70-90k range for "needs some kind of work", $90-120k for solid turnkey planes, and $120-150k for ones upgraded in a number of ways.

@gsxrpilot runs a google maps list of where a lot of MS members are, but you need to PM him to access it.

I'm out in Oregon, so if you're ever out in the Pacific NW, let me know!

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21 hours ago, carusoam said:

Buying remotely gets expensive fast...

1) See It before committing to a PPI?

2) PPIs are expensive, the plane should have a high probability of passing, before going through this process...

3) second trip to pick the plane up should have transition training linked to it... and a delivery flight home...

4) this can take a few weeks to actually make happen.

Two trips, lots of expense, and can still fail to meet expectations...

 

I combined the first visit, with a business trip elsewhere in the state... the risk being time elapsing and other buyers...

Be familiar with negotiations... writing a purchase agreement.  You want to move forwards with the buying process without the risk of somebody else offering to pay more.

Best regards,

-a-

I agree with all of this which is why a local purchase is my first choice but given what I'm seeing around my neck of the woods right now, it's not looking good.  I'm being patient since winter is setting in around here but come spring, I'm going to be really itching to get something.

-Steve 

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19 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Aside from what's already been said, the J & K models are significantly more spacious than an Arrow.  I used to fly a Cherokee, and the back seat only works if your passengers have no legs.  In Mooneys, the cabin floor space is significantly longer.  I'm 5'8", and I've loaded two tall people (6'0" and 6'2") in the back seat, and there was plenty of knee room for them to play footsies (they are those annoying kind of people that way).

With two people only, there is plenty of cabin space for my wife to move back and forth between the co-pilot seat and the back seat, where she can stretch out.  If she sits in the back right seat and I move the co-pilot seat forwards, she has a ridiculous amount of room..  Personally, I find the back seat super comfortable, and a good place if I need to take a nap in the hangar.

Loading the plane is the tricky part, since the seats are low to the floor and there aren't too many things to hold on to, and that may be where a lot of the myths about cabin space come from.

J models run in the $70-90k range for "needs some kind of work", $90-120k for solid turnkey planes, and $120-150k for ones upgraded in a number of ways.

@gsxrpilot runs a google maps list of where a lot of MS members are, but you need to PM him to access it.

I'm out in Oregon, so if you're ever out in the Pacific NW, let me know!

Thanks Jay.  Great info and reinforces my decision to go with a Mooney.  I started out looking at them (love their lines) then talked myself out due to the "myths" out there.  I have now circled back and as long as when I actually get in one, I really don't like it, I'm going Mooney.  I'm also not fixed on a J but a J/K would be my first choice.   I'm looking in the $80-100K range (may be willing to extend for the right one).  

Also, regarding the plane I posted above, I was not crazy about the panel either.  a 430 is the minimum.  I 530 would be great and a 750 the gravy.

-Steve

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