Would you accept a clearance from her?

[ilovecornfields]

Not sure if this has been discussed already but apparently a LAS controller had a stroke during her shift and kept controlling traffic (not blaming her since a stroke can affect your ability to tell something is wrong).

What I thought was interesting was the pilots responses. What would you have done in this situation?

 

[DonMuncy]

I don't know what I would have done, but it seems everyone there did a good job of dealing with an impossible situation.

[ilovecornfields]

25 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

I don't know what I would have done, but it seems everyone there did a good job of dealing with an impossible situation.

Well, it happened so clearly it’s not impossible. Improbable certainly. We had a recent thread about impaired pilots. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone talk about impaired controllers. Would you take that takeoff clearance from a controller slurring his or her words and obviously confused? If you end up taking off and colliding with someone else, would someone expect that you should have known better then to accept a clearance from someone who was clearly impaired?

I don’t have the answers, but since it clearly happened I think it’s worthwile to consider what you might have done. I personally liked the guy who was #4 and decided to shut down and wait it out. Seems like the smart move to me.

[DonMuncy]

The impossible part was that it is impossible to know what each of the participants knew or perhaps even understood at each step in the chain of communications.

In hindsight, it is clear that everyone should have shut down and waited until it was sorted out. And I agree, with the correct decision made by the pilot who did so. 

But I am not sure at what stage I would have been certain enough that the controller was impaired, that I would have ignored her instructions to take some action. I would hate to have to make that decision. Naturally, the longer the slurring of words and incoherent sounding instructions were heard, the easier the decision would get. 

[RLCarter]

 What seems odd to me is that it appears no one else is in the cab with her. Every tower I've ever been in has someone just watching/listening to what's going on

[jaylw314]

Has there actually been any information or evidence that she had had a stroke?  I hadn't actually read anything about specific causes yet.

[Marauder]

Has there actually been any information or evidence that she had had a stroke?  I hadn't actually read anything about specific causes yet.

It’s been mum in the U.S. periodicals. The UK Mail is reporting she “no longer works for the FAA”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[N201MKTurbo]

8 hours ago, RLCarter said:

 What seems odd to me is that it appears no one else is in the cab with her. Every tower I've ever been in has someone just watching/listening to what's going on

We were leaving Tucson a few days ago after a day of meetings. It took us 15 minutes to get a taxi clearance. There was only one guy running everything, clearance delevery, ground and tower. 

We finally heard another voice and things started moving. It must have been a bathroom emergency.

You would think a big time carrier airport like that would be better staffed....

[Sean S]

11 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

The impossible part was that it is impossible to know what each of the participants knew or perhaps even understood at each step in the chain of communications.

In hindsight, it is clear that everyone should have shut down and waited until it was sorted out. And I agree, with the correct decision made by the pilot who did so. 

But I am not sure at what stage I would have been certain enough that the controller was impaired, that I would have ignored her instructions to take some action. I would hate to have to make that decision. Naturally, the longer the slurring of words and incoherent sounding instructions were heard, the easier the decision would get. 

Just by all of us hearing this audio it is one more piece of training to put in our knowledge bank. We all continue to learn from our own experience and the experience of others. I personally never really considered that I would encounter a controller that was partially incapacitated!

[RLCarter]

19 hours ago, Bayern Speed said:

 I personally never really considered that I would encounter a controller that was partially incapacitated!

Early in training for my IR I had a controller that was also in training, I'm sure it sounded like we both were partially incapacitated

[Marauder]

KILG was an ATC training facility when I was based there. I remember a flight heading back to the airport. I was 10 miles northwest of the airport. KILG has a BRITE feed from Philly.

The exchange went like this:

“Wilmington Tower, Mooney XXX is a M20P, VFR, 10 miles northwest, 2500’, landing with information T”.

“Mooney XXX, Wilmington Tower, say heading”

“Mooney XXX is heading 140°”

“Mooney XXX, you reported your position incorrectly, you are 10 miles southeast of Wilmington”

“Negative, Mooney XXX is 8 miles northwest, 2,200 descending. I am flying heading 140 degrees”

“Mooney XXX, negative you are 8 miles southeast of the airport”

PAUSE...

“Mooney XXX, report right downwind for runway 27”

Never heard another word about it. I had to believe the supervisor for the controller came over and did a head slap.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[thinwing]

On the Beech site...retired controllers said she was fired for alcohol/drug ,and offense and that she blew .032 

[ilovecornfields]

1 hour ago, thinwing said:

On the Beech site...retired controllers said she was fired for alcohol/drug ,and offense and that she blew .032 

Can you post a link?

[Bartman]

Hard to say how one would react with it happening in real time. One pilot did ask for a supervisor, but no follow thru. Might be best to just get on another frequency and tell Clearance, Tower, Approach there is a problem. 

[midlifeflyer]

3 hours ago, Bartman said:

Hard to say how one would react with it happening in real time. One pilot did ask for a supervisor, but no follow thru. Might be best to just get on another frequency and tell Clearance, Tower, Approach there is a problem. 

That's an excellent answer. It's not in the audio, but I suspect something like that happened. Shortly before the replacement controller comes in, one of the pilots makes an announcement to everyone else on the frequency about it. Probably called another frequency or reported it to the airline's dispatch which called the tower.

[Nokomis449]

On 11/21/2018 at 11:50 PM, ilovecornfields said:

Can you post a link?

Here's where it's mentioned.  A lengthy read, and nothing more than 3rd party speculation (I.E., "my sources confirm...") about drugs/alcohol although there is a link to a news article stating the controller is no longer an FAA employee.  That fact alone is pretty damning - a bonafide medical issue wouldn't lead to an almost immediate firing/resignation, especially from a government job.

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=159980

[Bryan]

I read that the second controller was on break.  He was the one that came online at the end that said he would get everything sorted out.