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Why do they let them sit unflown


rainman

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16 minutes ago, David_H said:

I’d like to believe that getting a ppl ticket... then buying an airworthy plane takes at least an average amount of common sense. I do not subscribe to the fact that people that have let a plane decay believe what they are telling others about how the engine is “low time” and all that other fluff. After all, they had to pay for at least a couple of annuals... surely.

I don’t think those people saying that garbage are dumb at all. They are just looking for a sucker to believe their story. They took a gamble and lost (medical, lost interest, etc)... and they know this. It is not the next owners responsibility to pay for their gambling. The story is a sad one for GA and the plane that has to suffer the fate of that selfish owner. 

The best thing for GA is for people to call BS when that conversation starts. 

I think you're underestimating just how clueless a lot of people are- and how deluded.

I've been flying for 30 years and been based out of airports in 5 different states.  I have seen people like that guy everywhere I've been.

I have also seen owners like you're describing, but those are far outweighed by the ones you just shake your head at out of pity.  And in the off-chance the guy wasn't lying about having terminal cancer, I'm not going to tell him he's full of shit.  There but for the grace of God go I.

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27 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

I think you're underestimating just how clueless a lot of people are- and how deluded.

I've been flying for 30 years and been based out of airports in 5 different states.  I have seen people like that guy everywhere I've been.

I have also seen owners like you're describing, but those are far outweighed by the ones you just shake your head at out of pity.  And in the off-chance the guy wasn't lying about having terminal cancer, I'm not going to tell him he's full of shit.  There but for the grace of God go I.

Cancer is a bad deal for sure. It has nothing to do with the plane or how it got to where it is though.

Delusional people remain that way because either they choose to remain that way... or no one helps them to see reality. 

Calling BS doesn’t not mean someone must be disrespectful. Cancer didn’t define the gentleman’s life or what he chose to do with it.

Edited by David_H
Grammar
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30 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

I think you're underestimating just how clueless a lot of people are- and how deluded.

I've been flying for 30 years and been based out of airports in 5 different states.  I have seen people like that guy everywhere I've been.

I have also seen owners like you're describing, but those are far outweighed by the ones you just shake your head at out of pity.  And in the off-chance the guy wasn't lying about having terminal cancer, I'm not going to tell him he's full of shit.  There but for the grace of God go I.

Perhaps you are right. I certainly can’t say you are wrong. I really want to believe people aren’t that delusional though.

Isn’t that a real conundrum. Perhaps that makes me delusional. :lol:

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50 minutes ago, David_H said:

 I really want to believe people aren’t that delusional though.

 

I agree!  

One thing I didn't mention is that I've spoken to the airport manager and a few locals- they also believe the guy is just too old and out of touch to really understand his situation.  Unfortunate, really, in this case.

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I'll offer another approach to encourage folks in this situation (ramp queen ownership) to take. It is a win-win in several ways. But it isn't for everyone.

I'm sure there are other organizations that do the same thing, but Wings of Hope https://wingsofhope.ngo is an organization at KSUS in St Louis that takes donations of aircraft, valued at what ever the donor wishes to declare (within reason as viewed by the government), and then preserves them for a period of two years until the tax code time limit expires on re-valuing donated property due to resale. They then refurbish the airplanes to an airworthy condition for sale or auction to generate operating funds for their charitable outreach around the globe. Wings of Hope provides patient transportation from remote areas to medical facilities both in the United States and abroad.

The "win" for the owner is that they get to declare the value of the airplane they are donating and take the appropriate charitable deduction on their taxes. This may not be beneficial for everyone, but for those that it is, it allows at least some recuperation of the money they have invested in the airplane. Possibly more than they could get from a direct sale. It can be very helpful in a situation where an estate is being liquidated.

The "win" for the organization receiving the donation is that they receive an asset that can be liquidated in the future under the protections and advantages of a charitable organization, providing financial support to the organization's charitable operations.

The "win" for the purchaser is getting the potential tax advantages of acquiring the airplane from a charitable organization and at a cost that is most probably a very good deal, and also getting a "known quantity" from someone who will be straight with them about exactly what they are buying.

The "win" for general aviation is that an airplane doesn't deteriorate on a ramp somewhere, never to be flown again, but instead gets into the hands of a pilot that will hopefully fly it and pass it on to another pilot over time.

The opportunity to give back becomes very important to some people at later milestones in life, and this is one kind of opportunity to do that.

Cheers,
Rick

 

Edited by Junkman
Added link to Wings of Hope
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I paid maybe $26000 for my brand shiny new 1995 Volvo  850, with a few bells and some whistles. Loved that car. Still ran like a top, mostly. So its  paint was a little faded, the odometer hadn’t worked for at least 100,000 miles, the radio was a little unreliable, but hey, I had at least $35K in that car, counting maintenance, leather repair, a new alternator, tires,and so forth. Do you suppose I should have let 8t go for a penny less than that?  The time had come to move on last year, after 23 years. I was delighted to swap that beloved beater to a friend in exchange for his expert services. He is still driving it many dozen miles a day, and he is well pleased, but never mind what I had in it, versus what I “sold” it for. Machines don’t usually go up in value, in my experience.

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I've said it before on this forum and you all can hold me to it...

If I'm ever in a situation where I can't fly my Mooney at least 100 hours per year, I will add a young CPL or CFI pilot to my insurance and make them a set of keys. They can build hours for the price of gas. If I can't afford to maintain it as I should, it will be sold, or I'll take on a partner even if it's just to help with maintenance costs, no equity buy in required. Keep it maintained and flying or let someone else do it.

Friends don't let friends neglect their airplanes.

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10 hours ago, Andy95W said:

As I said in my post, it is a C-150B.  The only year for that model was 1962.

Well Andy, not an expert on Cessna model numbers,  I only know the 150 my son got his ticket in has that vertical tail too so I figured it must be around the same vintage.

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1 hour ago, Bravoman said:

Well Andy, not an expert on Cessna model numbers,  I only know the 150 my son got his ticket in has that vertical tail too so I figured it must be around the same vintage.

I'm still not sure why I would want it for a second airplane.  I just know I really like those old straight tail, razorback 150s.

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On 11/16/2018 at 8:08 PM, xcrmckenna said:

It’s sad seeing any plane with flat tires and sitting alone not being touched in years. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again if my plane ever just sits there for more then a month I give you all permission to kick me in the crouch till I sell it.....


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That's gonna hurt

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On 11/16/2018 at 10:08 PM, xcrmckenna said:

It’s sad seeing any plane with flat tires and sitting alone not being touched in years. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again if my plane ever just sits there for more then a month I give you all permission to kick me in the crouch till I sell it.....


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I can kick you while you are in a crouch, but I may miss your crouch. Is it between your legs? :):)

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On 11/18/2018 at 4:44 AM, rainman said:

I called back to the Lockhart (50R) FBO, and the owner has moved to Tennesee. The registration has expired and the plane is deregistered. She can get hold of the guy if anyone is interested. As I said, he pays his rent regularly.

The key to working with owners like this are establishing a relationship. It can take some time and slowly educating them on the reality of the situation for the aircraft.  You also have to give them time to grieve the loss and be willing to move on.  If you come across as a potential owner that will love their "baby" and take care of it you can often work a deal to bring one back to life. 

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Of course, the real problem is once these things have sat long enough it isn't economically advisable to try and bring them back.  An engine overhaul or paint job could exceed the value of some of these aircraft.

The saddest thing is the most economically viable way to own and airplane is to maintain it minimally and keep flying it until one of its expensive systems gives out.  Junk or donate it, buy another airplane and treat it identically.  There was a time the airframes actually appreciated in value, but those days are long gone.

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On 11/18/2018 at 5:44 AM, rainman said:

I called back to the Lockhart (50R) FBO, and the owner has moved to Tennesee. The registration has expired and the plane is deregistered. She can get hold of the guy if anyone is interested. As I said, he pays his rent regularly.

Back a number of years ago, the late Russell Stallings then owner of Southwest Texas Aviation had looked at that F over in Lockhart.  He stated then that it would cost more to put in the air then what he could part it out for.   A number of people have talked to the owner about buying it.  One of the "old guys" that man the FBO on the weekends "a prior mooney owner" would pull it out and wash it down, and keep the air up in the tire's even offered to run it around the pattern from time to time to keep it going but the owner wanted none of that.  So it sits and draws the curiosity of visitors..

 

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The back row of the ramp at my home aiport has the grave yard.  A whole row of unflown planes including a beech muskateer, beech baron, a twin comanche, and an assortment or cessnas and cherokees.  Most have flat tires and even a few of them have been sitting so long they have sank into the asphalt.  It's sad.

I walked that row last weekend to see what exactly was out there.  Actually I was hoping to see one that had decent electronics that I coud track down the owner and hopefully buy cheap.  I'm in bad need of a GPS.  :)  Anyway, the twin comanche is the one in the best shape, and it had a 530!  So I start looking.  The plane flew around the world back in 2002.  A couple of pilots based in NJ bought her and upgraded her specifically for the flight.  Such a cool history and now she is sitting; rotting away.  I've sent a few e-mail and started pulling paperwork to try to track down the owner.  Hoping, if nothing else, to hear more about their trip around the world.  She has been painted since she flew around the world so I'm pretty sure it was a different owner that parked her in greenville. 

Here is a link to the site where they tell about going around the world with her.  http://www.flightaroundtheworld.com/

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The back row of the ramp at my home aiport has the grave yard.  A whole row of unflown planes including a beech muskateer, beech baron, a twin comanche, and an assortment or cessnas and cherokees.  Most have flat tires and even a few of them have been sitting so long they have sank into the asphalt.  It's sad.
I walked that row last weekend to see what exactly was out there.  Actually I was hoping to see one that had decent electronics that I coud track down the owner and hopefully buy cheap.  I'm in bad need of a GPS.    Anyway, the twin comanche is the one in the best shape, and it had a 530!  So I start looking.  The plane flew around the world back in 2002.  A couple of pilots based in NJ bought her and upgraded her specifically for the flight.  Such a cool history and now she is sitting; rotting away.  I've sent a few e-mail and started pulling paperwork to try to track down the owner.  Hoping, if nothing else, to hear more about their trip around the world.  She has been painted since she flew around the world so I'm pretty sure it was a different owner that parked her in greenville. 
Here is a link to the site where they tell about going around the world with her.  http://www.flightaroundtheworld.com/


That is a great story about the twin. Both had to be in their 80s for that trip!


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On 11/17/2018 at 11:22 AM, M016576 said:

Their are plenty of pilots.... just not with the kind of money it takes to own and maintain their own plane.

Nope! Flying is way down, even with a good economy. Why would someone spend the money to become a pilot today and not have a goal of owning part or all of an airplane? Renting isn’t cheap either. 

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