The AV 30 Looks Good

[hammdo]

Starting to feel better about my decision to go G5. I'm sure they'll get it straight but I'd rather have it working right out of the box. G5>GNC 355 seems my best choice...

- Don 

[1964-M20E]

I have two to install in my plane.  Was going to wait for the AP interface to install the DG.  I have one plugged in on the bench right now.  180 degrees in 40 minutes.

I'm not happy to hear about this I figured they would have fixed something like this when it was just experimental.  On the bright side you can always use it to get our to inadvertent IMC by just maintaining your heading.

[cliffy]

If this doesn't get fixed quickly I predict this will spell the demise of the AV-30

Very disappointing

[drapo]

Maybe some development coming soon! On UAvionix site, there is a new software version (Update 1.1.0) that was added to the installation manual as of January 12th 2021.

Haven't been contacted by UAvionix yet, but I hope this update will address the problems reported by users. We shall see!

[Mark89114]

6 hours ago, drapo said:

Maybe some development coming soon! On UAvionix site, there is a new software version (Update 1.1.0) that was added to the installation manual as of January 12th 2021.

Haven't been contacted by UAvionix yet, but I hope this update will address the problems reported by users. We shall see!

Sounds like they are trying to fix hardware issues with software.....30 or 40 more attempts and they will have it right or so bloated doesn’t work at all....ala Microsoft, Sandia, BK-300, etc. 

 

[1964-M20E]

Still disappointed with the DG performance of the AV-30 and it's still not installed.  Frying bigger fish right now.

However, this does show you how much FAA certification means.   I have always advocated that the FAA should back off tremendously on avionics installed in our planes and I still back that position 100% now more that ever since they certified the AV-30 as primary DG and it can't even hold a heading for 5 minutes.  Is this Boeing all over again???  Certified does not mean better!!!

[1964-M20E]

Today From uAvionx.  Pretty much the same information provided above.

 

I sent this:

I pre-purchased 2 AV-30s and received them a couple of months ago. I was preparing to start the installation and recently heard about a disturbing issue on the AV-30. It appears that in the DG mode it precesses quite quickly. While bench testing the unit in 40 minutes the heading changed 180 degrees (270 to 90) You can actually sit and watch the heading change. I would have thought such a fatal flaw in the device would have been corrected when it was still in the experiential stage. This sound as much like a hardware issue as a software issue. My vacuum DG will only precess 5 degrees in 15 to 20 minutes in cruise. If the AV-30 was equal or better than that it would be acceptable.

 

What is UAvionix doing to address this situation?

 

UAvionix response:

 

We have an update that is coming out. We have released it to experimental units.  The AV-30-C has gone through rigorous bench and flight testing to achieve certification, but it is a new instrument being installed in a wide variety of aircraft, new environments, and being exposed to a variety of installation and operating procedures.

 

When the unit is on the bench it is easy to induce calibration errors by moving the unit around while aligning or while turning on or shutting off. In the software update, there will be a hard calibration so that these accidental calibration errors can be corrected. The software update also takes into account the corrections that the pilot inputs.

 

To help your unit not drift on the bench as is right now you would need to cycle power a few times and not move it during those times.  

[carusoam]

Sounds like certification didn’t require flight in an airplane...

-a-

[Hank]

14 hours ago, carusoam said:

Sounds like certification didn’t require flight in an airplane...

-a-

or a long run on the bench . . . .

[RobertGary1]

On 1/25/2021 at 5:03 PM, Tahir K said:

Thank you so much for clearing this up!! I have a G5 going in as the HSI and my original vacuum based AI going in as my backup as well. Hopefully that's enough.

Wonder how long till these issues are resolved...

I wouldn’t pair a g5 with the av-30. The Garmin g5 or 275 talk to each other and report differences in ahrs, adc and detect each other’s failure and revert automatically. You’re losing a ton with a mix/match solution. . 

[drapo]

14 hours ago, carusoam said:

Sounds like certification didn’t require flight in an airplane...

-a-

And looking at the AV30C certification process, or lack of thereof, it makes you wonder how come Aerocruze100 (TruTrak Vizion) a functioning modern digital autopilot already certified in similar airframes and already installed and flying in a vintage Mooney, is being delayed by the FAA while it's main competitor is certified on these same airframes even though the process started months after...

Are we seing a fair competitive market at work, some kind of bureaucratic obstruction or... Just asking! (Rethorical)

[RobertGary1]

8 hours ago, drapo said:

And looking at the AV30C certification process, or lack of thereof, it makes you wonder how come Aerocruze100 (TruTrak Vizion) a functioning modern digital autopilot already certified in similar airframes and already installed and flying in a vintage Mooney, is being delayed by the FAA while it's main competitor is certified on these same airframes even though the process started months after...

Are we seing a fair competitive market at work, some kind of bureaucratic obstruction or... Just asking! (Rethorical)

Or Garmin is well versed in the faa process while the new comer is trying to figure out how to fill out the form 

[drapo]

11 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Or Garmin is well versed in the faa process while the new comer is trying to figure out how to fill out the form 

Thanks for supporting my position that FAA certification isn't performance based but a bureaucratic maze that some can navigate through, wether because of experience or influence, and get the needed papers without having to prove the actual performance of their product... 

[Hank]

14 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Or Garmin is well versed in the faa process while the new comer is trying to figure out how to fill out the form 

It's probably more that Garmin is large enough to have a full-time STC writer in the building, while over at TruTrak, writing the STC is only part of someone's job. Here where I am, I wear one or two of several hats depending on what's going on today . . . .

[Tahir K]

On 2/2/2021 at 12:47 PM, RobertGary1 said:

I wouldn’t pair a g5 with the av-30. The Garmin g5 or 275 talk to each other and report differences in ahrs, adc and detect each other’s failure and revert automatically. You’re losing a ton with a mix/match solution. . 

I agree with you. My original plan was to only do one G5 HSI and keep the vacuum based AI. The AV-30 got certified and was cheaper than another G5 so bought that as well. I still have the vacuum AI going in as a back up. Maybe one day I'll upgrade to the GI-275 but that too is quite a few AMUs. Everything is at the shop and already going in... a little late to back out now. 

[drapo]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

It's probably more that Garmin is large enough to have a full-time STC writer in the building, while over at TruTrak, writing the STC is only part of someone's job. Here where I am, I wear one or two of several hats depending on what's going on today . . . .

Could be true, but the STC is already written and approved, they only need to add Mooneys and others to the AML list, which already includes 6 Cessna and 2 Piper single engine models. So I guess it all comes down to who is pushing for the STC, just like a B737Max kind of a deal...

[LANCECASPER]

Garmin is big enough to have in-house FAA approvals.

[Hair Helmet]

I suppose I should have read this thread sooner, 2 x AV30's are going in now.  10+ pounds of vacuum system and instruments have already come out.  The old DG was useless and due for a servicing anyway so I probably won't notice a difference since the only time I looked at it was during the initial checklist.  I don't fly IFR and it's hard to get lost in WA state.... but I dislike wasting money (airplane is cheaper than the casino).

[jetdriven]

I think the AV30 is also a DG, it does not have its own native heading source.

Edited February 8, 2021 by jetdriven

[gsxrpilot]

If anyone wants a slightly used AV20S, I'll have JD pull it and ship it to you. $500.

[laytonl]

On 1/25/2021 at 7:43 AM, takair said:

Great PIREP.  I had heard about the precession and it kept me from buying.  The ADI is disappointing, as the AV-20 was reported to have similar issues for some time.  In particular, extended standard rate turns would cause it to level out.  Have you tried that with your AV-30? (360* standard rate turn).

I’m anxiously waiting to hear what you guys find out about the Av30 and precession.

 I am planning on installing two in my Citabria.  I already have an Av-20 in the Citabria and it’s dead-on accurate with no extended turn issues.  I’ve tried it with several minutes of continuous standard rate turns as well as several turns at 60 degrees and rolls.  Always accurate.  Lee

[Nokomis449]

Add mine to the list of installed AV-30-C's that will have you flying a perfect circle if you follow the DG's guidance.  Mine's installed as an AI and works great in that mode.  But you can also display the DG at the top of the AI complete with heading bug, but if you look away for very long the precession will move the bug out of view.  Very disappointing, so I switched it to display GPS Track instead of magnetic heading.  Flew my first cross country with it last Thursday, north Alabama to Spruce Creek (Daytona, FL area) and back, and the AI worked as advertised.

Software/firmware updates are performed by accessing the rear of the instrument, disconnecting the D-sub, and connecting a pigtail that runs to your laptop.  Another good reason to keep my avionics access panels in place and forego the 201-style windshield.

In addition to the $2,000 price tag plus install, the primary AI mode REQUIRES you to tap into the pitot/static lines which then requires you to get a new pitot/static check done per the STC installation instructions (this is NOT required for primary DG mode).  So add that to the price of admission, which in my case was $350.  Luckily, my pitot/static/transponder test was coming due in May, so I would have paid that amount soon anyway.