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Too many questions to give a proper title.


Niko182

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Hello Users,

I am again at a point where I'm just trying to find some basic information about
the eagle and didn't want to make multiple threads, so i thought I'd just make
one that included all of them.

1. When the time comes to upgrading from the Moritz gauges to a JPI 900, can I reuse the
CHT, EGT, Voltage, from the 700 on the 900. I know it can be reused on the 830, but since the
900 is a primary, does this make it a different case or not.

2. Can I install the EI R1 tach under the clock. An STC that I'm doing requires a new tach that redlines
2700 RPM rather than 2400, and If possible id like to install it on the left of the turn coordinator
under the clock. Pic included for an idea where to place it. I'd rather not place it in the blank spot as I want
to relocate the EDM700 in that blank spot. Is there a range where the Tach can be placed, or can I just install
it anywhere within the panel?

3. can the 900 be linked to the KLN94 that i have be linked to the 900 for range and endurance time?

4. How many gallons do my tanks hold. Legally right now they hold 75 gallons. in about a week, they will
legally hold 89 gallons. can they hold 102, or is there a mod for that, that would need to be done. Please understand
that I'm not asking how many gallons they can legally hold. I'm asking how many gallons they can actually hold.

5. The 310hp STC is being done currently. I found a cheap prop, that needed an overhaul, so a 3 blade 7693 prop was bought
and is currently being overhauled as the 2 blade that was originally being used decided to go bezerk and it was concluded that
it wasn't worth overhauling the current prop, with all the advantages obtained once the STC is done. Should I continue running
the aircraft at 2200 to 2400 RPM for cruise settings. I heard from an MSC in chandler that when run at 2700RPM, it kills the
cylinders pretty quickly. I like most pilots, prefer to keep my engine running for as long as possible, and would just like some advice
from people that have had experience in this section. Currently at 1600 hours and has 5 original cylinders.

6. Whats a good and cheap ADSB out transponder. I'm currently looking at the GTX335, or the BK KT74. honestly not the biggest fan of
BK right now but for the time being, looking for the cheapest option, and would prefer to install it myself. Mechanically, always been pretty
good and have the time for it, so if I can learn to do it myself, and have an AP or an AI sign off on it, that would be wonderful. I'm not trying to
be cheap, but I dont need ADSB in as of now. Ill just buy a sentry and have that figured out. Priorities have been significantly changed as the budget
to do the panel had to be changed to go towards the prop. @TheTurtle how hard was it for you to install the GTX345 yourself? sorry for calling you
out but I remember when you gave me that ride about a year back, you stated that you installed the 345 yourself.

These are the questions I can think of as of now. Any help is appreciated. just trying to figure stuff out and enjoy flying.

20180716_144806.jpg

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1. The 900 comes with all the sensors legally necessary. 

2. Put the tach anywhere you want on the left side panel. Make sure you block off your current one. Dark tint looks better than an inop sticker. 

3.  I’m sure it can. 

4.  Probably around 95 usable but you will need to test this for your aircraft. This is fully floating the caps for which you need to go slow at the end. 

5.  Cruise 2400 to 2550 depending on altitude. Do not leave the shop until the FF is pushing 28-29 vs the 26ish specs in the manual. 

6.  Spend the extra 2k and do it right. You wanted a 750 when the funds were available right?  Work towards that goal of feature rich tight integration. If you had a 330 I’d say just upgrade to the ES. If you want to stay cheap and play with it yourself buy the Garmin gdl 82. 

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Expect primary sensors have a different part number on them...

2550rpm is a recommended cruise for 310hp and TopProp...

Running it at 2700rpm is possible, but fuel burn is high enough that you wouldn’t worry about premature wearing cylinders...

Fuel capacity for long bodies is close to 100gal... proper venting of the wacky fuel neck the Eagle got can work... use caution drilling around fuel tanks.  Sparks and metal flakes are bad.

Setting max FF is also an interesting discussion.  Too low, you will run into CHT issues...  STC says 27.2gph some may say 28, 29 or 30... discuss with your mechanic...

Skip cheap, go for long term benefits... look at remote mounting audio panel and transponder on the back shelf...  the Eagle has a great UL. Sending weight to the back helps the balance...

read the STC closely. There are recommended tachs. But, if you are going with the JPI900 you won’t need a separate tach... have it programmed with proper redlines...

Now is the time to decide on Cies gauges. Have the JPI set for frequency type fuel level sensors...

One question at a time is probably better. It will help with clarity.  At least for the audience...

Best regards,

-a-

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2 hours ago, Niko182 said:

Hello Users,

I am again at a point where I'm just trying to find some basic information about
the eagle and didn't want to make multiple threads, so i thought I'd just make
one that included all of them.

1. When the time comes to upgrading from the Moritz gauges to a JPI 900, can I reuse the
CHT, EGT, Voltage, from the 700 on the 900. I know it can be reused on the 830, but since the
900 is a primary, does this make it a different case or not.

2. Can I install the EI R1 tach under the clock. An STC that I'm doing requires a new tach that redlines
2700 RPM rather than 2400, and If possible id like to install it on the left of the turn coordinator
under the clock. Pic included for an idea where to place it. I'd rather not place it in the blank spot as I want
to relocate the EDM700 in that blank spot. Is there a range where the Tach can be placed, or can I just install
it anywhere within the panel?

3. can the 900 be linked to the KLN94 that i have be linked to the 900 for range and endurance time?

4. How many gallons do my tanks hold. Legally right now they hold 75 gallons. in about a week, they will
legally hold 89 gallons. can they hold 102, or is there a mod for that, that would need to be done. Please understand
that I'm not asking how many gallons they can legally hold. I'm asking how many gallons they can actually hold.

5. The 310hp STC is being done currently. I found a cheap prop, that needed an overhaul, so a 3 blade 7693 prop was bought
and is currently being overhauled as the 2 blade that was originally being used decided to go bezerk and it was concluded that
it wasn't worth overhauling the current prop, with all the advantages obtained once the STC is done. Should I continue running
the aircraft at 2200 to 2400 RPM for cruise settings. I heard from an MSC in chandler that when run at 2700RPM, it kills the
cylinders pretty quickly. I like most pilots, prefer to keep my engine running for as long as possible, and would just like some advice
from people that have had experience in this section. Currently at 1600 hours and has 5 original cylinders.

6. Whats a good and cheap ADSB out transponder. I'm currently looking at the GTX335, or the BK KT74. honestly not the biggest fan of
BK right now but for the time being, looking for the cheapest option, and would prefer to install it myself. Mechanically, always been pretty
good and have the time for it, so if I can learn to do it myself, and have an AP or an AI sign off on it, that would be wonderful. I'm not trying to
be cheap, but I dont need ADSB in as of now. Ill just buy a sentry and have that figured out. Priorities have been significantly changed as the budget
to do the panel had to be changed to go towards the prop. @TheTurtle how hard was it for you to install the GTX345 yourself? sorry for calling you
out but I remember when you gave me that ride about a year back, you stated that you installed the 345 yourself.

Answers, based on my experiences...

1. Although you can reuse your EGT, CHT, and voltage, JPI will recommend against it, as your CHT and EGT probes get brittle over time due to heat.  They may work for weeks, months, years, or not at all.  I recommend spend a few extra $$ and replace them at the time you change out the Moritz cluster to the EDM-900.  As part of the 900 kit, you'll receive a new voltage harness anyway.

2. There's no need to purchase and install an EI or any other tach.  Once you or your shop purchases the instrument, JPI will set 2700RPM as the redline (along with other data from your AFM) from the factory data sheet you or your shop will provide before JPI ships it.

3. Yes

4. Your tanks will physically hold either 108 gallons (102 usable), OR 106 gallons (100 usable).  You'll have to fully-fill your tanks to determine what they hold.  Mooney certified Ovations (and Eagles) with different usable amounts for various reasons throughout its lifecycle.  There is a filer neck kit available from Mooney that allows you to legally placard your tanks to indicate the higher usable fuel level and set your EDM-900 to the same value.  What you cannot do legally is set your JPI to indicate 100 or 102 usable with your certification level and placarding indicating lower...you need the kit installed that properly converts the levels.  JPI will only configure the instrument to what the airplane legally indicates.  I had this done on my airplane before the 900 went in.  Get ahold of me if you want the part number of the filler neck kit.

5. Per Bob Minnis, the original STC holder and developer of the 310HP conversion, the best/optimal setting to get the most life out of your cylinders while providing the best engine performance under given settings is 2550RPM.  Although the engine is rated for 2700 max continuous thrust, 2550 is the absolute sweet spot if you want to maintain proper cylinder health.  Proper operating regimen on the Eagle should be full power takeoff and climbout, then pull back to LOP at 23MP (generally below ~7000-8000) and 2550RPM, and full-throttle at 2550RPM at higher altitudes (generally above ~7000-8000).  There's no tangible benefit to, or evidence of reduced cylinder life by running less than 2550RPM in cruise on a 310HP-converted Eagle or Ovation.

6.  The GTX335 and GTX345 are nearly the same cost, so with respect to your budget, I wouldn't be penny-wise and pound-foolish at this juncture by doing the 335.  The added features of the 345 (and even the L-3 Lynx NGT9000) are certainly worth the added cost.

Steve

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The only help I have is on the JPI 900.  I simply removed all probes and replaced all.  I did not want to mix old (points of failure) and new.  The price difference (a few hundred or so) is not much in the grand scheme of ownership.  My thought is do it right the 1st time.  The other thing I did was completely remove the tach and all other gauges that the JPI now handles to cleanup the overall panel (your panel is pretty clean but we have all heard it is best to keep a sterile cockpit) and small weight savings.  I would try to move your VOR to the lower spot if possible and put your JPI right in the best line of eyesight possible (in the VOR location) and everything is right there (just what I did and am really pleased with it).

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Only thing to add is JPI is not flexible on the max FF, I don’t even think they will use 27.2 because that value is not stated on the proper stc page. 

Also the fuel levels, both the fuel totalizer and resistance levels, can be adjusted by the end user/mechanic not set by JPI.

 

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8 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Also the fuel levels, both the fuel totalizer and resistance levels, can be adjusted by the end user/mechanic not set by JPI.

Yes - good point.  The only caveat being they must match his current certification level...in this case, ~75 USG.

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Something to consider...

Are these redlines?

Max Fuel Level...

Max Fuel Flow...

How does JPI900 display exceeding these numbers? Flashing red, red, or ordinary not flashing colors...?

My O1 doesn’t have red lines on these original instruments. (From fuzzy memory?)

Expect to have red lines from the POH under limitations section and instruments...

It would be distracting to have full tanks and full FF flashing red on T/O... it could mask some other serious alarms...

Best regards,

-a-

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29 minutes ago, carusoam said:

How does JPI900 display exceeding these numbers? Flashing red, red, or ordinary not flashing colors...?

It would be distracting to have full tanks and full FF flashing red on T/O... it could mask some other serious alarms...

-a-

JPI is in crazy “engine is exploding mode” blinking red on the display and the alert remote led. This happens on every takeoff unless you have the FF set on cylinder destruction flow. Oh and the wonderful fact that they set the rpm redline at 2700. So if you set the prop at 2700 you get the Christmas light show again. Does JPI care? NOPE!

What the JPI/stc needs to have is put some breathing room between the proper adjustment and an emergency (out of bounds) level. They might as well set the cht redline at 381 degrees and have the unit alert the FAA if you recklessly blow that limit as well...

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4 hours ago, Niko182 said:


6. Whats a good and cheap ADSB out transponder. I'm currently looking at the GTX335, or the BK KT74. honestly not the biggest fan of
BK right now but for the time being, looking for the cheapest option, and would prefer to install it myself. Mechanically, always been pretty
good and have the time for it, so if I can learn to do it myself, and have an AP or an AI sign off on it, that would be wonderful. 

UAvionics wing tip light is the cheapest owner installed option I'm aware of.  If the wingtip light won't work on your plane, the certified version of their tail beacon is supposed to be certified this month.

It is a 20 minute job.  Any A&P can sign it off.

https://uavionix.com

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JPI is in crazy “engine is exploding mode” blinking red on the display and the alert remote led. This happens on every takeoff unless you have the FF set on cylinder destruction flow. Oh and the wonderful fact that they set the rpm redline at 2700. So if you set the prop at 2700 you get the Christmas light show again. Does JPI care? NOPE!

What the JPI/stc needs to have is put some breathing room between the proper adjustment and an emergency (out of bounds) level. They might as well set the cht redline at 381 degrees and have the unit alert the FAA if you recklessly blow that limit as well...

They do, if POH/STC allows it, from a J POH the max transient RPM is 2970, so exceeding 2700 just gives you a yellow light. You can also configure your own levels of warnings for CHT and get warnings before exceeding out of bounds level.

And you can disable warnings about FF calculation of fuel levels not equaling fuel gauges.

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6 hours ago, Niko182 said:

6. Whats a good and cheap ADSB out transponder. I'm currently looking at the GTX335, or the BK KT74. honestly not the biggest fan of
BK right now but for the time being, looking for the cheapest option, and would prefer to install it myself. Mechanically, always been pretty
good and have the time for it, so if I can learn to do it myself, and have an AP or an AI sign off on it, that would be wonderful. I'm not trying to
be cheap, but I dont need ADSB in as of now. Ill just buy a sentry and have that figured out. Priorities have been significantly changed as the budget
to do the panel had to be changed to go towards the prop. @TheTurtle how hard was it for you to install the GTX345 yourself? sorry for calling you
out but I remember when you gave me that ride about a year back, you stated that you installed the 345 yourself

The KT74 is not the cheapest option out there now, but it is probably the cheapest 1090ES option out there, mainly because you can keep the tray from a KT76A, which most people have.  You only need to replace the tray if you want to hook up some optional functions (mainly audio alerts for the timer and altitude deviation, which I didn't).  The shop still does need to redo the harness to connect it to your GPS obviously, and I thought (perhaps incorrectly) the STC requires the installation to be at an FAA radio shop, but I remember someone here said that was not the case.

Anyway, I do have it and it works fine.  It's also made by Trig, not BK, in case you have worries about quality from BK

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5 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

6.  The GTX335 and GTX345 are nearly the same cost, so with respect to your budget, I wouldn't be penny-wise and pound-foolish at this juncture by doing the 335.  The added features of the 345 (and even the L-3 Lynx NGT9000) are certainly worth the added cost.

+1 on doing it once and doing it right. If you do the GTX335 or the GDL82 you will spend money on labor that you will not get back when you decide down the road that you want to do it right. I am very satisfied with the GTX345.

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4 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

UAvionics wing tip light is the cheapest owner installed option I'm aware of.  If the wingtip light won't work on your plane, the certified version of their tail beacon is supposed to be certified this month.

It is a 20 minute job.  Any A&P can sign it off.

https://uavionix.com

Remember, UAT's are limited to under 18,000 MSL in rule airspace

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On 11/8/2018 at 2:22 AM, Niko182 said:



6. Whats a good and cheap ADSB out transponder. I'm currently looking at the GTX335, or the BK KT74. honestly not the biggest fan of
BK right now but for the time being, looking for the cheapest option, and would prefer to install it myself. Mechanically, always been pretty
good and have the time for it, so if I can learn to do it myself, and have an AP or an AI sign off on it, that would be wonderful. I'm not trying to
be cheap, but I dont need ADSB in as of now. Ill just buy a sentry and have that figured out. Priorities have been significantly changed as the budget
to do the panel had to be changed to go towards the prop. @TheTurtle how hard was it for you to install the GTX345 yourself? sorry for calling you
out but I remember when you gave me that ride about a year back, you stated that you installed the 345 yourself.
 

no sir.  That was installed by Western Avionics.  Garmin wont sell it for certified aircraft except to a garmin dealer/installer.  All in its was about 8k.  They did have to add the waas antenna as well.  I did everything else in my plane other than the actual rebuild of instruments myself but they wouldnt let me install the 345.

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2 hours ago, TheTurtle said:

no sir.  That was installed by Western Avionics.  Garmin wont sell it for certified aircraft except to a garmin dealer/installer.  All in its was about 8k.  They did have to add the waas antenna as well.  I did everything else in my plane other than the actual rebuild of instruments myself but they wouldnt let me install the 345.

Actually, Garmin sells (only) their certified transponders to certified airplane owners for A/P install. I just bought GTX335 kit (all including GPS antenna, tray, new encoder and harness) from aircraft Spruce and will do install shortly.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Igor_U said:

 

Actually, Garmin sells (only) their certified transponders to certified airplane owners for A/P install. I just bought GTX335 kit (all including GPS antenna, tray, new encoder and harness) from aircraft Spruce and will do install shortly.

 

 

It’s just that kit and the gdl 82 that Garmin is selling direct to owners for certified aircraft. All the other units including the 335 w/o gps or an antenna states experimental or dealer only. 

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