Hot or cold start?

[NJMac]

Was up flying this afternoon and got 2.7 hours hood time with my instructor. Came back to Dayton International to briefly touch down and pick up a buddy to go check out the fall colors around sunset. Outside air temperature was about 40 degrees and the plane sat for about 15 minutes before we got back in to try and restart it. I tried the hot start procedure and that didn't work. So then I flooded it thinking I could do a flooded start procedure. That didn't work. So all said and done I cranked on it for probably 2 or 3 minutes. And at the end it sounded like the starter stuck.

 

So we have it running and the engine monitor is yelling at us low bus voltage. So it keeps draining down from 11.8 and finally terminated at 9.5 volts while putting out two positive amps.

 

Talk to the mechanic and he thinks I melted the starter solenoid because when you flip on the master it automatically engages the starter. Really hope that we don't have a prop strike tomorrow in the maintenance hangar. Obviously a rookie mistake.

 

What procedure would you have done in this situation? It obviously wasn't a cold start and like I said I initially tried mixture at idle cutoff and full throttle which is normally a very successful hot start procedure for that plane

 

 

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[ArtVandelay]

You’re hot start procedure is actually a flooded start. Hot start you leaving throttle where it was.

[NJMac]

You’re hot start procedure is actually a flooded start. Hot start you leaving throttle where it was.

Hot start fuel at idle cutoff and throttle at idle too?

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[carusoam]

15 minutes at 40°F is less likely to need a hot start...

Hot starts are typically, land, refuel, get going immediately, on a hot day...

But once you flood it intentionally, a flooded start is your only option...

Either way 10 seconds is all that is need to start, or show signs of starting...

Minutes is overheat time usually resulting in burning up the starter... there is probably guidance for starter cooling times in your poh for that...

A stuck starter relay... that is a wild and crazy new challenge!

Get refreshed on your various starting techniques... could be other aged worn things getting in the way...

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob - S50]

I would have tried a hot start:  throttle open 1/4", mixture cutoff, crank.

If it didn't start within about 5 seconds or so I would: stop cranking, mixture full rich, throttle 1/4", boost pump for about 1 second (just long enough to establish pressure), mixture cutoff, crank.

[DualRatedFlyer]

Don't forget that starter duty cycle regardless of the starting procedure used. 

[asaxet]

My E is was a bear to start hot...  or after just sitting the Texas summer sun all day...  until i found and use the Dave Mcgee   Hots Starts M20e...  process..   google it...     I always set throttle to 1000 rpm now on shut down.....  

 

[jaylw314]

A hot start is a hot start for only two reasons:

• There is only vapor in the fuel divider because of the heat
• There is excess fuel in the intake (because the remaining fuel in the divider vaporized)

I don't think there's any hard data on how long the above takes, but I do know I can hear the fuel lines gurgling about 5 minutes after shutdown, so I assume that's when you should use a hot start.

Consensus for hot starts seems to be to

• shut down the engine from 1000-1100 RPM and leave the throttle there (which is slightly open)
• crank without touching the throttle
• full mixture once it starts

I wonder if your starter relay stuck because it overheated.  It would be interesting to see if the starter is still stuck on if you turn the master on after giving it a few minutes to cool (making sure nobody is near the prop when you do, of course).

[NJMac]

  It would be interesting to see if the starter is still stuck on if you turn the master on after giving it a few minutes to cool (making sure nobody is near the prop when you do, of course).

That was the case still yesterday when mx checked out the issue. He called the damaged part a contact but said it was essentially what i was calling a solenoid. Said it was old and potentially had some corrosion but my hard workout likely did it in. Need to replace that before he knows if there is starter damage too.

Appreciate The group's feedback so far.



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[carusoam]

Contactor, solenoid, relay...

All names for the same electromagnetic switch...

We have a few in each plane.

They get used where switching large current on and off is important... when human fingers aren't fast or accurate enough to do the job...

Switching current has a tendency to arc...arcing wears out the switch.  More wear causes more arcing and leads to an autocatalytic switch failure...

Some relays we have...

1) Master

2) Avionics

3) Starter

4) Battery one/two selector

5) flap motor

6) gear motor 

All different shapes and sizes designed to do different jobs...

Our avionics relay is funny because it is wired to function under various conditions that include a relay failure.

Our starters are funny because the complexity of the switch we use to activate the starter relay... twist and push.

be extra careful while determining what is not working... disconnecting the starter may be a really good idea. Using a meter to test what is working up stream can find what is working properly...

PP thoughts only not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-