redcatcher27 Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 First World Problems: Yesterday, I climbed into our wonderful 1968 M20F after not being able to fly it in 2 months. After starting, the LOW VAC Light remained illuminated. It looks like my 18 year old vacuum pump (AA215CC) with almost a 1000 hours on it finally gave up the ghost, on Halloween Day. So my question to our great community is, should I replace it with a new or overhauled one? Lowest price for an OVERHAULED one on Spruce is $229 and the highest price for a NEW one is $389. If I return a core after the purchase of a new one, I could get 25 dollars back. RAPCO or TEMPEST are the choices on Spruce. Core charges and reimbursements and shipping charges for returned cores are part of the equation. Warranties vary from 3 years and 1300 hours (NEW) to 2 years and 1000 hours (OVERHAULED). Maybe more to the point, when YOU are looking to replace failed parts, do you automatically gravitate towards new or overhauled, and why? Any particular brands better than others? Thanks! (CBs, I think I know what your answer will be, but feel free to join in!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 All things being equal for $125 I'd get the new one, assuming the quality hasn't plunged since yesteryear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 Gravitate to what is known to work... Avoid things that have a probability of failure... Dream about resale value... Skip anything that generates a feeling of unease... Vacuum pumps are pretty straight forwards... their vanes wear out and break... There isn’t a lot of reason to add risk if you fly in IMC... If you only fly VFR, would you notice a failed AI? What do you have for a back-up vac system to drive your AI? If your TC is your back-up in IMC, you can do better... Vac systems are falling out of favor quickly... Wet vac pumps last a lot longer than dry vac pumps... The cost to swap out a pump isn’t very much. But, more than what you want to pay to do it twice... What else? PP thoughts only.... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 When my Rapco pump died a few years back, I replaced it with a Tempest. It has been fine ever since, even though with the latest panel work I only use it for the speed brakes. If I were flying IFR and had a requirement for a vacuum pump for my avionics, I would lean towards the Tempest only because my experience with their spark plugs leads me to feel they have a good quality assurance process. As @Freemasm stated, it all comes down to the quality of workmanship. While I have had no bad experience with Rapco, I have had good experiences with Tempest, but as with all things, YMMV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 Garmin, G5 will replace the vacuum pump on my F when it dies. Maybe $4000 more than you’ll spend, but worth it I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 I guess it does depend on what else you have powered by the vac system, but I have a mechanical HSI, fixed step and no speed brakes, so yes, a G5 by itself will let me remove the vac AI. The real problem is if you have an attitude based autopilot (my STEC is rate based), then you have to keep your AI to run the autopilot. The OP has the same year as me, so fixed step. Maybe he has a vac dg or attitude based AP, but otherwise, he could easily use a G5 to replace the vac system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 10 hours ago, redcatcher27 said: First World Problems: Yesterday, I climbed into our wonderful 1968 M20F after not being able to fly it in 2 months. After starting, the LOW VAC Light remained illuminated. It looks like my 18 year old vacuum pump (AA215CC) with almost a 1000 hours on it finally gave up the ghost, on Halloween Day. So my question to our great community is, should I replace it with a new or overhauled one? Lowest price for an OVERHAULED one on Spruce is $229 and the highest price for a NEW one is $389. If I return a core after the purchase of a new one, I could get 25 dollars back. RAPCO or TEMPEST are the choices on Spruce. Core charges and reimbursements and shipping charges for returned cores are part of the equation. Warranties vary from 3 years and 1300 hours (NEW) to 2 years and 1000 hours (OVERHAULED). Maybe more to the point, when YOU are looking to replace failed parts, do you automatically gravitate towards new or overhauled, and why? Any particular brands better than others? Thanks! (CBs, I think I know what your answer will be, but feel free to join in!) Think yourself lucky you didn't get the light in the air...especially in IMC. Also consider yourself fortunate that you were able to get about twice the amount of time out of a dry vac pump than you probably should have. Unless you're planning to go all electric in the near future as part of a cockpit upgrade, I'd look at the Airwolf 3P-194 wet vacuum pump. A bit of a steep cost, it's a solid aluminum billet pump that has over a 2000-hour lifespan...and has been proven to go much longer. It will probably be the last one you'll ever buy if you plan on keeping your vacuum system. I had one in my Ovation several years ago before the cockpit upgrade. Here's the Airwolf link... http://www.airwolf.com/aw/products/airwolf-wet-vacuum-pumps Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, Freemasm said: For installations in aircraft approved for IFR operations: • If the G5 is installed as the primary attitude indicator, the existing rate of turn indicator must be retained. • If the G5 is installed as the rate of turn indicator, the existing primary attitude indicator must be retained. • That seems pretty reasonable, though? I mean, keeping the turn coordinator is not a big deal. If you needed extra panel space, you could jettison the VSI, since you get that data on the G5 and there is no requirement for IFR or VFR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) In fact, Garmin did real good making it simple for many of us... yes, you can take out the AI and get rid of the vac system with a G5 in its place. The limfac is if you have another vac operated system or an attitude based autopilot. As far as redundancy, if the G5 were to fail (much less likely than vac instruments), you’d be left with the same partial panel scan you have now. Im not saying its right for everyone since it’s several AMUs more than just replacing the vac pump, but yeah, you can definitely replace the AI with the G5. Edited November 2, 2018 by Ragsf15e 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Aside: According to its STC the G5 may not be installed in a FIKI aircraft. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhop Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) My 2¢... I recently experienced vacuum failure on a VFR flight. To get back in the air quickly, I CB'd out with an overhauled Rapco dry air pump on the advice of my trusty A&P. While observing the failed AI and TC bouncing around due to turbulence, I know that I don't ever want to be partial panel and relying on the TC in IMC. I plan on starting my instrument rating in the very near future and I am now collecting quotes to add a G5. Since I have the KAP-150, I need to keep the vacuum pump but according to the G5 install guide--verified by my friendly avionics install shop--the KG-258 AI can move down and replace the TC. I can then have the G5 installed in the primary location of the AI. I then get solid state AI, non-primary supplemental air data, and turn coordination right in front of me. Sure I don't get to remove the vacuum pump but I get a lot more situational awareness, keep the autopilot fed, while having two independently powered AI's in the airplane. In a visually challenged world that is about to become my future, I can't think of a better alternative for a CB price... First quote received: $4218 G5 = $2204 Install labor 16 hours = $1680 Taxes = $334 Would pull the trigger but they can't start until March, thanks to all the ADS-B holdouts and current rebate! Edited November 2, 2018 by jonhop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 That’ll be a nice setup! Very redundant. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Jerry 5TJ said: Aside: According to its STC the G5 may not be installed in a FIKI aircraft. Trek (Garmin) said this will hopefully change late this year / early next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 I talked with Rapco at OSH last year about this. Consensus was new or overhauled would provide the exact same service life. I went with an overhauled one and it has worked well over the past year. Previous pump was also overhauled and went just under 900 hrs. Mine is only used as a backup or it would have been changed at the 500 hr mark. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 It would be difficult to argue that a new is more reliable than an overhauled. I'd have to see hard numbers because when you open it up and look inside anything that is wearable is new either way. Doesn't make a lot of difference if the case was previously a vac pump or a lawn chair. -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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