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IO-360-A3B6 Jet-A Contamination 1.86%


base698

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Will fill in the rest of the story later, but it appears we have at least 1.86% Jet-A in our fuel after a lab report.  Anyone know if that's enough to get a whole new engine for Christmas? 

We have an insurance claim open and FBOs where it has been fueled are involved, but not sure what they are going to say yet.  Will call Lycoming in the morning.

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I was involved in a jet A contamination arround 1997 or so from Chevron .Got a letter and phone call stating I had fueled helicopter with known bad batch of fuel .They found out about it from a south bound plane destroying its engine from detonation shortly after fueling at KSAC.So they tracked down every one who had purchased fuel and sent guys over to defuel ...I later read it was about 18% jet a...than Insurence people from chevron wanted to see logs for any flights post fueling.I had done 2 about an hour each.Chevron paid for engine and tranny overhaul due to common oil supply.

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Base,

fill us in with as many details to your story to get the best ideas from the MS community...

Calling AOPA can get you up to speed with options...

Wondering if Lycoming has numbers for amount of jet fuel decontamination can be endured...

Drain, flush, repeat... do not fly...

 

Good luck and best regards,

-a-

 

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Less than 2% is pretty low. Was the engine run with it? Fuel systems can be cleaned and flushed out if there is no engine damage but I'll be curious to hear what Lycoming recommends. They'll  probably be pretty severe in their recommendations if there is any risk.

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A long time ago, here in Kerrville, a fuel guy put 100 low lead into a kerosene burner.,

Plane had a mixture of both JetA and 100ll

I watched the guy sit there for 3-4 hours, letting both engines run at 30% power 

He said it was safe for the engines?!

Not my plane.

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Every engine design has its limitations...

Jet fuel in piston planes causes preignition that can lead to melted pistons within minutes.

100LL in a jet engine would be different...

In this case... See what the engine manufacturer says to do...

Not sure what the advantage of running all the mixed fuel through the jet engine does...  unless that was clean fuel and the idea was to flush it for hours...?

Jet engines may be more tolerant to mixed fuel... the 100LL has a much lower energy content per gallon... that would cause a different set of challenges...

PP thoughts only, no Jet A experience yet...

Best regards,

-a-

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11 hours ago, Mcstealth said:

A long time ago, here in Kerrville, a fuel guy put 100 low lead into a kerosene burner.,

Plane had a mixture of both JetA and 100ll

I watched the guy sit there for 3-4 hours, letting both engines run at 30% power 

He said it was safe for the engines?!

 

Many gas turbine engines specifically allow the use of 100LL and/or unleaded gasoline. In fact the P2V had both piston engines and jet engines, all of which ran on Avgas. 

Our EC135 helicopter has Turbomeca Arrius 2B1 engines. They allow a good number of hours using 100LL avgas without restrictions or overhaul requirements. 

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Just a thought: 

 

If your engine is going to be apart for inspection, then re-assembled, but not overhauled. Consider renewing various wear items such as cam and lifters. (assuming you have a flat tappet cam) Main and Rod bearings, rod bolts and so on. Many disassembly-inspections go back together without replacement of those wear items. Sometimes they don't even remove the rods from the crank. 

Done correctly, you should have an engine that will go another 2000 hours from the "inspection". It may not increase the value like a true overhaul would, but it will have some value, especially to you. 

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2 hours ago, cujet said:

Many gas turbine engines specifically allow the use of 100LL and/or unleaded gasoline. In fact the P2V had both piston engines and jet engines, all of which ran on Avgas. 

Our EC135 helicopter has Turbomeca Arrius 2B1 engines. They allow a good number of hours using 100LL avgas without restrictions or overhaul requirements. 

The P/W PT-6 I fly allows up to 10 hours of flight with Avgas. Temps run hotter so you have to keep an eye on that.

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PT6A-35 permits up to 150 hours of operation on 100LL.  

The IO-360 is not as happy on 100% JetA, however.  

Chevron had a 100LL contamination issue in N California about 24 years ago.  The end result was a lot of new engines installed at Chevron expense.  Including the one in my C. 

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  • 1 year later...
I watched the guy sit there for 3-4 hours, letting both engines run at 30% power 


Sounds like 3-4 hours of low-risk loggable turbine time (so long that he/she had the “intention of flight”).


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On 11/5/2018 at 7:54 PM, base698 said:

Lycoming wants a tear down and inspection then overhaul if needed.  Insurance is paying for the fuel testing and inspection/tear down.  If it requires an overhaul they will also cover any work there as well--good thing I just got 4 new cylinders.  

Socal based: Between Corona, "Tim's in Long Beach" who would you prefer to do the work?

 

 

 

I had Tim’s do my engine. Very clean, tightly and professional shop. I have been happy with it. They encourage you to visit the facility when it’s your engines turn. They show you all your parts and the condition. LyCon is awesome if you want to wait that long. I had them do an engine on a 182 I owned and it was smooth. You can have you cylinders ported, polished and flow balance by them and that’s a quick turn around. I did on my last J and I like it. 

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On 11/7/2018 at 6:01 PM, Mcstealth said:

A long time ago, here in Kerrville, a fuel guy put 100 low lead into a kerosene burner.,

Plane had a mixture of both JetA and 100ll

I watched the guy sit there for 3-4 hours, letting both engines run at 30% power 

He said it was safe for the engines?!

Not my plane.

A lot of turboprops have limited amount of time they are certified to run on 100LL. I believe on the King Air it was 5 hours. 
 

-Robert 

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4 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

 


Sounds like 3-4 hours of low-risk loggable turbine time (so long that he/she had the “intention of flight”).
 

 

The CFI in me has to kill this intention of flight myth which 90% of CFIs seem to also perpetuate :P  The aircraft must come to rest after landing for the time to count.

from 14 CFR 1.1

 

"Flight time means: Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or.

 

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On 11/7/2018 at 8:01 PM, Mcstealth said:

A long time ago, here in Kerrville, a fuel guy put 100 low lead into a kerosene burner.,

Plane had a mixture of both JetA and 100ll

I watched the guy sit there for 3-4 hours, letting both engines run at 30% power 

He said it was safe for the engines?!

Not my plane.

Citations were allowed to run a certain amount of time on  Avgas.  I know a guy that did it.. no difference in indications he said.

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8 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

"Flight time means: Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or.

 

What does the other half of the sentence say? "Or" what?

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31 minutes ago, Hank said:

What does the other half of the sentence say? "Or" what?

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or (2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.

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Yeah do a hot run down the runway and taxi back to parking for a couple hours. Great way to rack up some twin turbine PIC time. Blown out Falcons and Lears can be had for $25,000.


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