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Touch and Go in a fire breathing turbo... 252


gsxrpilot

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9 minutes ago, Yetti said:

It's part of the flow, check position in pattern, look left to runway threshold, check airspeed, pull up a little to get under gear speed, put gear down, verify on floor gear is going down, start u turn to land, calculate for flaps, check turn coordinator, put flaps half, check gear down, Check for other planes on final, check turn coordinator, check approach, check floor indicator, check centerline, check wind. focus on centerline.

The one time it did not happen this way when the engine hiccupped with the fine wire plugs,   I needed altitude, but then I did not need it, since I was inside the fence, so the gear went out on base.

I've said this before, but it bears repeating.  I promise you I can distract you to the point where you'll totally forget the gear.  And I don't hold a patch on your average 4 year old, though Mrs. Steingar says I've the maturity of one.

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3 minutes ago, steingar said:

I've said this before, but it bears repeating.  I promise you I can distract you to the point where you'll totally forget the gear.  And I don't hold a patch on your average 4 year old, though Mrs. Steingar says I've the maturity of one.

Obviously anything is possible... but I believe barring the outrageous, I'll disagree.

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1 hour ago, steingar said:

I've said this before, but it bears repeating.  I promise you I can distract you to the point where you'll totally forget the gear.  And I don't hold a patch on your average 4 year old, though Mrs. Steingar says I've the maturity of one.

The CFI almost got hit when he did the distract and pulled the gear breaker. I did scowl at him.    I sit pretty far back from the panel and see everything.   I can hit isolate on the audio panel and make you go away. :-)

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1 hour ago, steingar said:

I've said this before, but it bears repeating.  I promise you I can distract you to the point where you'll totally forget the gear.  And I don't hold a patch on your average 4 year old, though Mrs. Steingar says I've the maturity of one.

 

6 minutes ago, Yetti said:

The CFI almost got hit when he did the distract and pulled the gear breaker. I did scowl at him.    I sit pretty far back from the panel and see everything.   I can hit isolate on the audio panel and make you go away. :-)

Exactly! I took my oldest daughter and her two kids, (8 yo grandson and 5 yo granddaughter) flying for the first time a few weeks ago up in Redding. (Yes I am far behind on my blog posts...) I explained all the rules to them about when they could talk and when they couldn't. I also told them that if they tried to talk when they shouldn't I would switch off their headsets. On takeoff they did well and were quiet. They loved the flight! I called up tower on the way back in and told them they had to stop talking now. That instruction lasted about a minute. I gave them one more reminder. On about a two mile final I reached up and switched off the intercom. I think they were still chatting but I couldn't really hear them anymore. We cleared the runway and as we were taxiing to the ramp my daughter said "I wish I had a switch like that in my car!":lol:

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3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Obviously anything is possible... but I believe barring the outrageous, I'll disagree.

It's not passenger chatter that get's you (though it might contribute).  It's something so distracting that it takes your head completely out of the current task at just the right moment even if only for a fraction of a second and then prevents it from returning to the task completely.  I would never say that it could not happen to me or that I could not be distracted. That would be tantamount to a self inflicted curse.  I think I'm a decent stick and conscientious about how I do things.  I also think that many pilots far superior to me in skill, experience and discipline have screwed this particular pooch...many times.

Unsurprisingly, Mr. Deakin has penned some of his wise and entertaining musings on the subject.

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3 hours ago, Shadrach said:

It's not passenger chatter that get's you (though it might contribute).  It's something so distracting that it takes your head completely out of the current task at just the right moment even if only for a fraction of a second and then prevents it from returning to the task completely.  I would never say that it could not happen to me or that I could not be distracted. That would be tantamount to a self inflicted curse.  I think I'm a decent stick and conscientious about how I do things.  I also think that many pilots far superior to me in skill, experience and discipline have screwed this particular pooch...many times.

Unsurprisingly, Mr. Deakin has penned some of his wise and entertaining musings on the subject.

Note that I have never said never.    What I have done is designed the landing flow with a "designed to fail" mentality.   There are a fair amount of "check the floor indicator" in the landing flow.    Maybe you need to add a chaos monkey to your world.....  https://medium.com/netflix-techblog/lessons-netflix-learned-from-the-aws-outage-deefe5fd0c04

 

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14 hours ago, Yetti said:

Note that I have never said never.    What I have done is designed the landing flow with a "designed to fail" mentality.   There are a fair amount of "check the floor indicator" in the landing flow.    Maybe you need to add a chaos monkey to your world.....  https://medium.com/netflix-techblog/lessons-netflix-learned-from-the-aws-outage-deefe5fd0c04

 

Too late! Already jinxed yourself, Your approach is not uncommon. I have a flow for multiple scenarios...but not every scenario. I caught the issue with my standard short final GUMPs. The process worked, I was just surprised it was needed. Never before nor since have I ventured  so close to making such an obvious mistake.

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Noted on jinxing.   Also on the get gear down to slow down.   I have lots of energy to get rid of since I am usually at the top or above the white arc at the threshold.  the ones I hate are, when driving away from the airport, I wonder if I did all 4 checks of the gear.  I mean clearly I did because the plane rolled back into the hangar just fine, it would not do that if the gear was up,, right?

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1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm with the big guy on this... @Yetti

At the point that I extend the gear and check down and locked, I tell myself, no matter what else happens, I won't gear-up the airplane this time.

Well,  if it ever happens to you, I promise not to mention this thread (that I've now bookmarked:P)...

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I occasionally will do touch and goes.  Sometimes I set the plane in take off configuration prior to the T&G, which makes it easy to touch just the mains.  On and back off the runway in a few  100 feet.  That said, I don't do  touch and goes at night or with significant cross winds, and I always leave myself enough runway to abort the TO.

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3 minutes ago, chrisk said:

I occasionally will do touch and goes.  Sometimes I set the plane in take off configuration prior to the T&G, which makes it easy to touch just the mains.  On and back off the runway in a few  100 feet.  That said, I don't do  touch and goes at night or with significant cross winds, and I always leave myself enough runway to abort the TO.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think you're getting out of practicing landings in a nonstandard configuration?

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2 hours ago, steingar said:

Just out of curiosity, what do you think you're getting out of practicing landings in a nonstandard configuration?

What's a standard configuration, other than gear down?  I land in 3 different flap settings and practice them all, 0 flap, t/o flaps and full flaps.

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When I'm landing, gear is the only requirement... everything else is as required based on conditions. I make decisions on speed, flaps, touchdown, prop, mixture, cowl, etc, on the fly so to speak. But the only thing that absolutely has to be done is GEAR.

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On 11/20/2018 at 1:07 PM, kpaul said:

What's a standard configuration, other than gear down?  I land in 3 different flap settings and practice them all, 0 flap, t/o flaps and full flaps.

My flaps are electric, and move as long as I hold the switch. So every landing has a different configuration, although most of them are right around the Takeoff setting. Just like all ither flight controls, I adjust the flaps as necessary to get to the part of the runway that I want. Flying an F with the 3-position-only flap lever was different, and the plane lands much better with Landing flaps.

TnGs are useful, especially when practicing instrument approaches. Every "breakout" is different--how well did I hold course, how closely did I hold glideslope, how well does the Final Approach Course match the runway (although sadly many of the -A approaches are disappearing). TnGs are also useful to help new pilots firm up their landing procedures, as many landings can be done in quick succession.

On the safety front, make sure the runway is long enough. Just like all personal minimums, this will vary from person to person but I like to have 5000' to give my electric flaps and manual trim time for reset, and they are each right hand activities. 

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3 hours ago, Hank said:

My flaps are electric, and move as long as I hold the switch. So every landing has a different configuration, although most of them are right around the Takeoff setting. Just like all ither flight controls, I adjust the flaps as necessary to get to the part of the runway that I want. Flying an F with the 3-position-only flap lever was different, and the plane lands much better with Landing flaps.

TnGs are useful, especially when practicing instrument approaches. Every "breakout" is different--how well did I hold course, how closely did I hold glideslope, how well does the Final Approach Course match the runway (although sadly many of the -A approaches are disappearing). TnGs are also useful to help new pilots firm up their landing procedures, as many landings can be done in quick succession.

On the safety front, make sure the runway is long enough. Just like all personal minimums, this will vary from person to person but I like to have 5000' to give my electric flaps and manual trim time for reset, and they are each right hand activities. 

What are these 3 position flaps of which you speak? Hydraulic flaps are infinitely adjustable if you’re into that sort of thing. 4 full pumps from none to all but nothing prevents a pilot from doing half pumps or quarter pumps or bleeding back up. I can’t see any utility in it, but whatever blows your hair back is fine by me.

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1 minute ago, Shadrach said:

What are these 3 position flaps of which you speak? Hydraulic flaps are infinitely adjustable

Check a 1969 or later F, the flaps are a 3-position slider. While flying a 75 F, I missed the infinitely-variable electric flaps in my C. But the mid body lands a little different anyway, it just took a couple of tries to figure it out. 

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9 minutes ago, Hank said:

Check a 1969 or later F, the flaps are a 3-position slider. While flying a 75 F, I missed the infinitely-variable electric flaps in my C. But the mid body lands a little different anyway, it just took a couple of tries to figure it out. 

my 76 F has the infinitely-variable flaps

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On 11/20/2018 at 11:01 AM, steingar said:

Just out of curiosity, what do you think you're getting out of practicing landings in a nonstandard configuration?

I land with full flaps, take off flaps, and no flaps.   --And take off flaps is not a bad way to land in strong cross winds. No flaps if the plane picked up some ice.

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1 hour ago, Yetti said:

This one was $60 at wally world today.   Almost bought it   https://www.walmart.com/ip/Vivitar-360-Action-Camera/197733435

I bought a knockoff from www.wish.com for $14, and a heap of mounts. Now if I could only remember what the prop filter material is . . . .

Aha! I need a Neutral Density filter, preferably one I can cut up.

Edited by Hank
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