Panel upgrade

[EricJ]

10 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Nowhere does the "doing it right the first time" have as much financial benefit as in aviation.

And nowhere is it more disappointing to pay up on an already very expensive project to take it to the "more reputable" shop and still get something that has to go back for multiple warranty trips to fix amateur mistakes.   Could've done it better myself, but the FAA says thirty-five years experience as an Electrical Engineer in the wireless comm business is not sufficient qualification, so the kid with the soldering iron and the Repairman Certificate should do it.

[MIm20c]

18 minutes ago, MooneyTunes said:

Al valid points gents. Thank you all for your input. I am a firm believer in redundancy. Having the ipad and Stratus is cheap insurance when Murphy shows his ugly head. Depending too much on gadgets errodes a pilot of his basic skills. Heck I still carry a paper map and a wiz wheel. I will take up the suggestion of upgrading to the 345. Swapping boxes shouldn’t be too expensive. All the other gadgets can wait. Besides in 6 months or so the 510 will become obsolete by a NEWER gadget. Avionics upgrade is a fast moving train. 

I would expect a 3k delta between the 335 and 345.  If you are planning on keeping the stratus I would keep the 335. If you had an older transponder or a larger mfd I would say go for the 345. 

[MooneyTunes]

Overall finally getting ADSB, and GPS W, will vastly improve the capabilities of my Moon. I’ve been flying a plain vanilla, no autopilot, no electric trim, class 1 nav airplane for the last 3 years. And its been great! Adding on the new 500 AP. will vastly expand my Moons capability. I suspect within 5 years all of our flight decks will become obsolete. I prefer buying 100LL over gadgets anyday. Heck I’ve owned the iphone since gen 1 came out and I still need my kids to show me its full potential. Over all thank you all for your imput. Always a pleasure exchanging ideas with the know crowd.

[kortopates]

Overall finally getting ADSB, and GPS W, will vastly improve the capabilities of my Moon. I’ve been flying a plain vanilla, no autopilot, no electric trim, class 1 nav airplane for the last 3 years. And its been great! Adding on the new 500 AP. will vastly expand my Moons capability. I suspect within 5 years all of our flight decks will become obsolete. I prefer buying 100LL over gadgets anyday. Heck I’ve owned the iphone since gen 1 came out and I still need my kids to show me its full potential. Over all thank you all for your imput. Always a pleasure exchanging ideas with the know crowd.

Yep, your in for a huge treat with your new panel which will literally change the way you fly. If you are new to the technology; especially waas GPS and the 650, do yourself a big favor and find a CFII that is an expert in GPS and get some good instruction in how to use it with all the different RNAV GPS Approaches including navaid substitution. There is a lot more to it than just buttonology which will be the first hurdle.

 

 

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[MooneyTunes]

34 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Yep, your in for a huge treat with your new panel which will literally change the way you fly. If you are new to the technology; especially waas GPS and the 650, do yourself a big favor and find a CFII that is an expert in GPS and get some good instruction in how to use it with all the different RNAV GPS Approaches including navaid substitution. There is a lot more to it than just buttonology which will be the first hurdle.

 

 

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Absolutely! I don’t plan on actual IFR untill a thorough checkout. I’ve had a chance to play with a 650 trainer and it’s fairly intuitive. Navigating around the menus and knowing the shortcuts to finding the right page will take time and hands on experience. Particularly new concepts such as LPV approaches. Fortunately down here in SFLA our weather should be prime for training in the upcoming months.

[Marauder]

Absolutely! I don’t plan on actual IFR untill a thorough checkout. I’ve had a chance to play with a 650 trainer and it’s fairly intuitive. Navigating around the menus and knowing the shortcuts to finding the right page will take time and hands on experience. Particularly new concepts such as LPV approaches. Fortunately down here in SFLA our weather should be prime for training in the upcoming months.

It took me about 10 hours to get comfortable with the flow and interaction between the Aspens and the GTN.


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[Marauder]

And that is coming from an all steam plane with VORs and a NDB.


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[kortopates]

5 hours ago, EricJ said:

And nowhere is it more disappointing to pay up on an already very expensive project to take it to the "more reputable" shop and still get something that has to go back for multiple warranty trips to fix amateur mistakes.   Could've done it better myself, but the FAA says thirty-five years experience as an Electrical Engineer in the wireless comm business is not sufficient qualification, so the kid with the soldering iron and the Repairman Certificate should do it.

Eric, you really need to find yourself an A&P program and enroll. That's what I did, at a local community college that had both daytime and evening classes perfect for the working engineer by day.  Then in about 2 1/2 years you'll be able to to do most of this stuff and maintain your Mooney. But in the first semester though, you'll be de-programmed to degree to learn as a practicing A&P you still won't be able to apply any of your engineering background. Generally, you have to become a Designated Engineering Representative (DER) which licenses you to be an engineer and develop "approved" data that an A&P can use. A licensed A&P is mandated to follow the methods and procedures approved by the Administrator and that is what you'll spend learning and practicing for the next couple of years of full time evening classes. But  learning and following approved methods and procedures isn't such a bad thing though. And I'd bet you'd be as entertained as I was attending evenings classes. Its just a huge time sink since it's 4 out of 5  nights a week. Of course it really helps if you have such a school nearby.  

[gsxrpilot]

Or get yourself an Experimental...

[kortopates]

On 10/27/2018 at 1:15 PM, Jim Peace said:

Unfortunately Garmin pilot does not do geo referenced taxi diagrams, only the AMM chart.  FF does both.

I know this has been a sore spot with you from prior post, but Garmin came out with their own safe taxi diagrams to provide what they thought was more comprehensive coverage and detail. This recent Garmin blog video explaining them might be of interest. https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/aviation/terminal-environment-safety-garmin-safetaxi/  

FWIW, I am Jepp chart subscriber with GP and have never found them lacking.

Oh, I just finally remembered your prior complaint was lack of frequencies on the Safe Taxi diagrams. Sorry, the video doesn't address that. I personally get the frequencies off the airport frequency page of GP or the GTN to get clearance, ATIS and taxi instructions before i start taxing and  then go to the Safe-taxi diagrams for taxi navigation.

[bradp]

Here’s an idea. Don’t sweat the 335 vs 345 if the 345 doesn’t work out.  You can ask them to install a GDL-52R as a remote mount. You’ll have all the functionality and more of a 345 but in a modular format.  

[EricJ]

5 hours ago, kortopates said:

Eric, you really need to find yourself an A&P program and enroll. That's what I did, at a local community college that had both daytime and evening classes perfect for the working engineer by day.  Then in about 2 1/2 years you'll be able to to do most of this stuff and maintain your Mooney. But in the first semester though, you'll be de-programmed to degree to learn as a practicing A&P you still won't be able to apply any of your engineering background. Generally, you have to become a Designated Engineering Representative (DER) which licenses you to be an engineer and develop "approved" data that an A&P can use. A licensed A&P is mandated to follow the methods and procedures approved by the Administrator and that is what you'll spend learning and practicing for the next couple of years of full time evening classes. But  learning and following approved methods and procedures isn't such a bad thing though. And I'd bet you'd be as entertained as I was attending evenings classes. Its just a huge time sink since it's 4 out of 5  nights a week. Of course it really helps if you have such a school nearby.  

I'm a step ahead of you; almost through the first semester and generals.   Four more to go. 

[MooneyTunes]

2 hours ago, bradp said:

Here’s an idea. Don’t sweat the 335 vs 345 if the 345 doesn’t work out.  You can ask them to install a GDL-52R as a remote mount. You’ll have all the functionality and more of a 345 percent n a modular format.  

Isn’t this the same as the Stratus but wired to the AC? Monthly subscription not required for Stratus.

[bradp]

42 minutes ago, MooneyTunes said:

Isn’t this the same as the Stratus but wired to the AC? Monthly subscription not required for Stratus.

Correct.  It would be wired to ship power and can use ship antennas.  If you’re a fan of Xm/ want xm radio this would be the way to go.  

[kortopates]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

I'm a step ahead of you; almost through the first semester and generals.   Four more to go. 

Awesome! I hope you're enjoying it as much as I did!

[Jim Peace]

6 hours ago, kortopates said:

Oh, I just finally remembered your prior complaint was lack of frequencies on the Safe Taxi diagrams. Sorry, the video doesn't address that. I personally get the frequencies off the airport frequency page of GP or the GTN to get clearance, ATIS and taxi instructions before i start taxing and  then go to the Safe-taxi diagrams for taxi navigation.

So you have never been taxiing and then told to switch to a different ground freq or tower freq then what you thought you may get?  With these loud and (door open) windy cockpits it is so much easier to see a list of potential Freqs you may get during a read back.  Sometimes you get switch to south ground or ramp and good day,,,,then what? I have to switch back to who knows what chart to figure it out?

I understand that in 2018 it is impossible to put those Freqs on the AMM,,maybe someday the technology will exist.

Also I do not like the scale of the AMM.  Yes I know you can zoom in but it is just not the same as an airport diagram being zoomed in on.  I don't know why its different but it just is.  I have much more SA on an NOS  airport diagram or a jepp 10-9 chart than any Garmin created AMM chart.

[kortopates]

2 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

So you have never been taxiing and then told to switch to a different ground freq or tower freq then what you thought you may get?  With these loud and (door open) windy cockpits it is so much easier to see a list of potential Freqs you may get during a read back.  Sometimes you get switch to south ground or ramp and good day,,,,then what? I have to switch back to who knows what chart to figure it out?

I understand that in 2018 it is impossible to put those Freqs on the AMM,,maybe someday the technology will exist.

Also I do not like the scale of the AMM.  Yes I know you can zoom in but it is just not the same as an airport diagram being zoomed in on.  I don't know why its different but it just is.  I have much more SA on an NOS  airport diagram or a jepp 10-9 chart than any Garmin created AMM chart.

I get it, but for me, two taps: one to close the Safe Taxi and then one to tap Freq brings me back to the frequency page list for the airport. When done, one tap to go back safe taxi diagram. If the Freq where on the diagram per the Jep 10-9 diagram I figure I would be doing the equivalent or more scrolling to find the freq in proper corner; as you are aware Jepp doesn't have a fixed place corner for where it puts the freq which varies on orientation. So after zooming in its not obvious where to scroll too which is I why I think exiting back to the freq page is more efficient. 

The scaling you refer too seems to be vector or dynamic graphics as opposed to raster graphics. The safe taxi diagrams are vector graphics which allow additional content to be displayed as you zoom in and out and text to remain the same size rather than change. This is generally considered superior and allows text to maintain proper orientation (when the implementer chooses too). All the IAP are using raster graphics which is not dynamic. 

GP provides their safe-taxi diagrams without a Jepp subscription which is great. I  can't recall if Jepp geo-references the 10-9 charts since I gave up the Jepp app after GP integrated them into GP, but clearly they aren't geo-referenced in GP. But GP gets a plus while taxing since it clearly shows hold short lines as well as hot spots are areas not visible to tower. But that does nothing for your frequency issue.  Sorry I couldn't be of help.

Hopefully well see the expected GTN 6.51 update out next week.

Edited October 29, 2018 by kortopates

[Jim Peace]

On 10/29/2018 at 3:16 AM, kortopates said:

Hopefully well see the expected GTN 6.51 update out next week.

If it does come out you will read about it first on beechtalk.  That is the official Garmin news network.  Not the FAA or Garmin website as you might expect.  Garmin still has not fessed up on their site about the screw ups to the last update and I suspect they never will.  

 

[StevenL757]

On 10/27/2018 at 1:02 PM, MooneyTunes said:

Yes.JPI 830 most likely.

I would suggest changing that to the EDM-900, which can serve as the primary engine display and allow you to free up panel space and clean up the overall look significantly.  With the 830, you’re required to keep your original engine instrumentation.

Steve

[MooneyTunes]

2 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

I would suggest changing that to the EDM-900, which can serve as the primary engine display and allow you to free up panel space and clean up the overall look significantly.  With the 830, you’re required to keep your original engine instrumentation.

Steve

Thanks for the suggestion. Some one else had made this point. I have looked in to it and for the price difference, it makes sense. I believe JPI is offering $400 rebate on the 900. 

[kortopates]

10 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

If it does come out you will read about it first on beechtalk.  That is the official Garmin news network.  Not the FAA or Garmin website as you might expect.  Garmin still has not fessed up on their site about the screw ups to the last update and I suspect they never will.  

 

Its out now Jim, see https://s23634.pcdn.co/en-US/aviationalerts/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/1876A_ASDN.pdf 

[Jim Peace]

5 hours ago, kortopates said:

Its out now Jim, see https://s23634.pcdn.co/en-US/aviationalerts/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/1876A_ASDN.pdf 

I received the email today straight from the FSDO office I was working with....

how many months after screens gong blank did it take them to acknowledge it through official channels?  3 months maybe?

still does not hurt to be a member of beechtalk, they are the first place Garmin unofficially fessed up to this issue with Trek.

[Aerodon]

Sorry, not the best quality picture.  But I'm getting close to the end with the dual G5 / GFC500 and EDM900 in my C172 project.  Let me know if I can help with a similar Mooney panel (CAD, CNC and paint service) and EDM900 supply / trade in deals.

I tried using the 900 with the original FQ transmitters.  On the ground I thought I had a reasonable calibration line (fairly linear).  But in practice, the FQ was useless.  I installed CiES transducers with the V out option.  This feeds directly into the EDM900 - no black converter box, no JPI up-charge fees etc.  I won't ever waste my time with the original transducers again.  

Aerodon supercub180@gmail.com