FastTex Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 I'm on an ILS approach going through my GUMP and when I switch my gear down nothing happens. I cycle the switch two more times...nothing! Start troubleshooting and I see the breaker popped. I do a go around, push the breaker, cycle the gear switch one more time and hear the gear down noise. The green light beneath the switch is still off, I check the floor light and it's green. Not trusting I go around again and call the FBO asking for someone to check my belly. They see three wheels, I land safely! What can possibly be? I left the Mooney at the shop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 Which breaker? Gear actuator or Gear relay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbarry Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Any panel work done lately? I say this because after having some avionics work done, I had a similar experience. One of the panel spacers that belongs with a screw through it instead was just sandwiched between the panel and frame. Needless to say, it worked loose only to fall right on top of the gear breaker and created a direct short—not the best situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Replace the breaker, Lube/inspect the gear actuator Lube all the gear lube points Check for chafing wires Maybe a bad relay under the belly panel Make sure everything is lubed well Don't let any part of your actuator go to the guy in CA. Check http://www.aeromotorsllc.com/aeromotorsllc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Trotter Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 No intention is misdirecting this thread. However, I can't help but make an appreciative comment on this experience. All too often we believe that when we do something, like move a switch, the intended action occurs. In fact, I suspect many of us are lulled into complacency because what we expect to happen usually does. This is a perfect example and reminder of what we should all be doing...all the time. After initiating an action, like extending the landing gear, verify its completion. The same could be said about Flaps, frequency changes (nav and com), autopilot and oxygen to name just a few. There is nothing small about this incident. It was only a pilots vigilance to detail that converted this event into a successful landing. Thank you for the reminder. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastTex Posted October 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 hours ago, larryb said: Which breaker? Gear actuator or Gear relay? Good question. I forgot to check. It's the one on the top row about in the middle. I cannot find a picture of the panel either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastTex Posted October 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 hours ago, cbarry said: Any panel work done lately? I say this because after having some avionics work done, I had a similar experience. One of the panel spacers that belongs with a screw through it instead was just sandwiched between the panel and frame. Needless to say, it worked loose only to fall right on top of the gear breaker and created a direct short—not the best situation. Yes, I had both VORs and one radio overhauled plus the gauge bank...but I have been flying a few hours after the work...when I left this morning the light was green and everything appeared ok during the flight...but I'm aware that stuff won't alert you before breaking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbarry Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 With an small mirror and a flashlight you should be able to check each row of the breakers and confirm nothing foreign (like screws or panel spacers) are resting where they don’t belong. With my incident I mentioned earlier, it took several hours and some light turbulence to work the spacer loose for it to drop in on the gear breaker and cause the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 I chased an intermittent gear breaker popping problem for several months back in the early 1990s. After replacing the gear breaker, rebuilding the gear motor and alternator, replacing the gear switch and checking all the wiring it all came down to a slipping alternator belt. There is plenty to check on, my advice is eliminate the cheap stuff first. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sime Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 On my '76F, I have separate breakers for the landing gear and the landing gear indicator. If there is an issue in the circuit for the landing gear indicator (ie. faulty/shorted gear warning horn), the breaker will trip and you won't get a green gear down indication light. I realise this is a separate issue from the gear actuation itself, but thought it prudent to mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 14 hours ago, L. Trotter said: No intention is misdirecting this thread. However, I can't help but make an appreciative comment on this experience. All too often we believe that when we do something, like move a switch, the intended action occurs. In fact, I suspect many of us are lulled into complacency because what we expect to happen usually does. This is a perfect example and reminder of what we should all be doing...all the time. After initiating an action, like extending the landing gear, verify its completion. The same could be said about Flaps, frequency changes (nav and com), autopilot and oxygen to name just a few. There is nothing small about this incident. It was only a pilots vigilance to detail that converted this event into a successful landing. Thank you for the reminder. There are two redundancies to this situation. If the plane won't slow down, the gear is not down. The floor indicator. I move switch, check the floor to see moving. Then I check the floor 3 or 4 more times to make sure. Also when my breaker would pop, I would hear it. even through the bose. Listen to your plane, it is talking to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 6 hours ago, Yetti said: There are two redundancies to this situation. If the plane won't slow down, the gear is not down. The floor indicator. I move switch, check the floor to see moving. Then I check the floor 3 or 4 more times to make sure. Also when my breaker would pop, I would hear it. even through the bose. Listen to your plane, it is talking to you. When my gear goes down, I feel ot go overcenter under my seat, and it thunks home audibly. Always has. Noticed Saturday, even in turbulence, the nose pitches down a second after the thunk. Gear down on dow wind, check green light; turn base, touch switch and confirm green light; turn final, check floor indicator; short final, touch switch. Just be careful on straight ins . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 When you said that floor was green if that includes the floor bulb light on illuminating the green then that is primary for the gear down - not the panel light. Without a circuit issue both floor and panel are illuminated by the same circuit so if floor was illuminated then both should be. it could be as simple as the panel bulb. Did you press it to test the bulb? Of course none of this has anything to do necessarily with the relay or actuator breaker popping. But it may or may not be related. ( I also can't tell which model this refers from in Tapatalk unless you mention it) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazztheglass Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 I had a similar episode. Retarded the throttle and got the gear not down audible warning. It ended up being the gear motor. Had it overhauled/exchanged by Lasar I believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastTex Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 My A&P suggestion is to take my Mooney to DLK in GA (closest place to me, about 1hr — has anyone worked with them?) to rig the whole landing gear. He found the emergency cable connected to the lever broken (fortunately I didn’t need it!) and he thinks the motor is applying too much strength on the structure where it is connected which could indicate extra amps possibly causing the breaker to pop. Also, the green LED burned out. He cycled the landing gear multiple times with no issues. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Unless there is a good reason to start messing with the gear, then don't. Unless there is evidence of damage or something slipping or something being adjusted by the last person (paint scratched for stops) then don't change things. Determining how a cable broke or did not get hooked back up is an important step. Who did the last annual? E gear swing is part of the annual. If that cable was not hooked up and the e gear disconnect got tripped then the handle would have been spinning. Check and lube actuator would be one of the first step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastTex Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 We have seen a small paint scratch in the left inside door of the front wheel...like the wheel is rubbing but even adjusting the door it's still there. Other than that and the floor strong movement (my mechanic thinks it is not usual...) everything has been working ok for the last 20hrs of flights. Until the issue above. Is some rubbing "normal"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Could this be as simple as the emergency gear cable was accidentally engaged and the gear actuated? Anyway your A*P should be able to let you know that the preloads are correct and no trusses or tubing is damaged and then you can fly gear down to have it rigged. Does the floor rise up when you actuate the gear (like your seat lifts?). That means the gear motor is working way too hard for some reason and is over-loaded. Preloads out of spec are associated with gear actuator motors that become unhappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastTex Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, bradp said: Could this be as simple as the emergency gear cable was accidentally engaged and the gear actuated? Anyway your A*P should be able to let you know that the preloads are correct and no trusses or tubing is damaged and then you can fly gear down to have it rigged. That's exactly one of the recommendations. Is rigging the gear a big ($$$) deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 An experienced mooney shop can re-rig from the starting point in a few hours. The issue is not so much the rigging but if you find a damaged component. Given your cable has already been damaged, you may find more. Make sure that your A*P speaks with a Mooney savvy AP before he clears you to fly it over... can get some specifics about areas to inspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, FastTex said: That's exactly one of the recommendations. Is rigging the gear a big ($$$) deal? Not if they know what they are doing and have done it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Yetti said: Not if they know what they are doing and have done it before. Joey Cole, Mooney Service Center, KDNN, Dalton, GA. Who's in Dahlonega, and how much Mooney knowledge / experience do they have? Edited October 23, 2018 by Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Earlier this year I had an issue with the Gear Relay (not Actuator) circuit breaker blowing. The symptom was the Gear Relay CB would pop when the gear reached the full UP position. If I re-set the breaker it would just pop again. But if I put the landing gear switch in the Down position and then reset the CB the gear would go down without issue. There was a case where one of the screw terminals on the back of the UP limit switch contacted a piece of the landing gear mechanism when the gear was up. So the fix was pretty simple, they just removed the screw, which was unused, from the switch, eliminating the interference. There is very little clearance here. The problem could not be seen with the gear down. The plane needed to be on jacks with the gear retracted to find the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastTex Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 5 hours ago, Hank said: Joey Cole, Mooney Service Center, KDNN, Dalton, GA. Who's in Dahlonega, and how much Mooney knowledge / experience do they have? I will call them tomorrow, also recommended by my A&P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastTex Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Here are the latest: while testing the emergency gear down mechanism my mechanic discovered....it wasn't working! Shocking and glad I didn't need it. Apparently the cable is broken. According to one of his source (somewhere in California) the cable is no longer manufactured. The same person also said the slight movement and pressure under the seat while raising the gear is not uncommon. Anyway, the priority know is to fix the emergency gear system. Does anyone know where we can find a cable or has one? Any help is appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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